How to Podcast: Episode 2

In this podcast series, Candice Nolan interviews professional podcasters or people working in the podcasting industry. This week features veteran podcaster, Paulo Dias. He is the Audio Content and Convergence Specialist at Ultimate Media, All-round podcast enabler and Contributor Business Live Redzone.

He dispels the myth of the unique podcasting idea, and advises wanna-be podcasters to get stuck in before they lose their nerve. But first, buy a microphone!

Transcript

Spudcaster: [00:00:00] Baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts. Podcast your life with Baobulb.org. 

[00:00:19] Candice: [00:00:19] Hey, how's it. Paulo: All right. Candice: Also, this isn't going to take up too much of your time just to give you a kind of picture of what I'm 

[00:00:24] trying to put together.

[00:00:25] So I wanted to give, um, new hosts that sign up with me, kind of like a, like a, a bird's eye view of podcasting, what you need to know, um, where to go to find out information, good resources, um, good questions to ask, you know, with people to ask that kind of stuff. So kind of connecting people in that way.

[00:00:46] And that's where you come in. So before we start, just, just to start, if you would, if you wouldn't mind just stating your name for the record and in what capacity you speaking to me, please. 

[00:00:58] Paulo: [00:00:58] My name is Paulo Dias . I am head of convergence, creative and digital audio with Ultimate Media. 

[00:01:06] Candice: [00:01:06] Awesome stuff.  

[00:01:08] just give us a little bit of a background into how you 

[00:01:11] got into podcasting.

[00:01:13] Paulo: [00:01:13] In particular, I was, I've been working in radio since 2002 I'm on all sides of radio. And then sort of like, as I entered radio, the digital side of radio started coming about, and then people would send through a shortcut, send through a keyword to a short code. And get a link. 

[00:01:36] Candice: [00:01:36] Um, I missed quite a bit of what you said there.

[00:01:39] The line went a bit iffy if you wouldn't mind. Just starting from the beginning. 

[00:01:43] Paulo: [00:01:43] Sorry. No worries. Um, so. I started working in radio in 2002 and sort of like, as I started working in radio and getting my feet under the desk there, the digital side of radio started coming about. And at the time it was a streaming of radio stations.

[00:02:00] As simple as that, just putting a little button on the station website, people would listen online and then we started taking the best on-air features, our most popular features and sending them out to people over SMS, short code. So they would send us the short code. We’d send back a link and they could download that to their phone.

[00:02:18] And then obviously if you progressed into, uh, putting them on to apple, then it was iTunes then. Yeah, it was iTunes then. And there was the early days of podcasting. And then, you know, just through that process, I started discovering podcasting. Myself, um, and started looking at what was happening internationally and things like that, and always had a passion for it and, uh, have sort of like maybe through a bit of will.

[00:02:43] Uh, but mostly through being a bit of a fan boy, I have, from my position of being, working in radio, both radio stations and independently being able to forge and create and force a local podcast industry. Um, and you know, thankfully for pandemic, uh, we finally have one. 

[00:03:04] Candice: [00:03:04] All right. 

[00:03:04] And if you wouldn't mind just elaborating a little bit about that.

[00:03:07] What do you, what do you think 

[00:03:08] the impact of, uh, COVID has been on podcasting in general, but in particular in South Africa. 

[00:03:16] Paulo: [00:03:16] So I think there was always like a small, healthy community of podcasters, but it was like, almost like, if you want to imagine the SA music scene in the nineties, And it was loyal and it was a little bit indie.

[00:03:25] It was a little bit underground. Um, it was still being majority. I mean, I suppose different to the music scene, majority controlled by the radio stations. Cause they just got the resources and the content and the platforms and the listeners. Uh, but why podcasting never blew up is because they try to treat podcast listeners like radio listeners and

[00:03:45] I think when it comes to polish and the actual product. Yes. There's similarities. But I think when your user behaviour is so different. And then when I say the impact of COVID is tied into exactly that, uh, people wanted the companionship and the comfort that they perhaps weren't getting in other mediums.

[00:04:05] Uh, you know, we weren't listening to radio, but we still want the power of the human voice. And I think podcasts give you that. I think people. Finally had time to look around at podcasts podcasting. Unfortunately it's not an easy thing to get into. It involves an app and subscribing and downloading that I'm downloading too much.

[00:04:23] It's not user-friendly, but I think people had a little bit of time to go in and discover. And once I discovered that were hooked and then also think just the impact of screens, you know, we’re tired of screens, we go to school on screens, meetings on screens. entertainment's on screens. And now if I don't have to look at a screen for entertainment, maybe

[00:04:42] there is another alternative. And even if you just look technologically, is that the advances in. Headphones Bluetooth speakers. That's where major technological advancement has happened in five years versus screens. You know, phone screens can only get so big, can only get so broad can only have so much resolution where we've seen headphones and ear pods.

[00:05:04] And. Bluetooth speakers really blow up in what they can do and home speakers and Alexis and Google nests and things like that. And I think just that conglomeration and all of those working so well with audio has meant that people go well, you know, let me just adopt this for a podcast. 

[00:05:21] Candice: [00:05:21] Okay. Well, that's, that's a very interesting perspective.

[00:05:25] Um, what do you wish you knew, uh, when you started out podcasting, I mean, you mentioned the, how difficult it is to get into and how technically challenging it can be at times. Um, what do you wish you knew right in those early days, um, that you now know that could have benefited you then 

[00:05:43] Paulo: [00:05:43] as a producer or as a listener?

[00:05:45] Candice: [00:05:45] I would ask as both. 

[00:05:47] Paulo: [00:05:47] I think. What I wish I knew as a producer was to pay as much attention to distribution as you do to the content. Where now I'm very mindful of it where it's like, everyone's got a podcast idea. Everyone knows what their podcast will be about, but you got to think about where you're going to put it.

[00:06:07] Who's going to listen to it, how you're going to get it out to them. And I would say to anyone getting into it, because you know what your podcast idea is about. Spend 40% of your time crafting your content and 60% on your distribution, think about where you go. Everyone wants to be where you get your podcasts, where they can find more podcasts, but that's not necessarily the best thing for you.

[00:06:28] Think about where your podcast needs to go. Who ideally you want to listen. And how big or how vast or what job you want your podcast to do. And I think that's just even more important. That's more important than your podcast, because to be honest, you might think of a podcast idea as unique, and no one's doing it.

[00:06:46] I'll tell you right now there's 500 people doing it and you've just got to figure out how do you get to the right people that you want to talk to? So that's, as a producer that I learned along the way to go think importantly and think strategically about that. I think what I suppose I wish I knew as a listener was to probably to be honest, uh, not have got so embedded into apple podcasts because now I'm stuck in the ecosystem and it is not the most user-friendly ecosystem compared to the others, but I've tried to migrate to simpler podcast platforms and players, and it's not so easy.

[00:07:23] So I wish I was a bit more, um, a bit more, uh, wiser. I wish I was a bit wiser . 

[00:07:33] Candice: [00:07:33] You wish you never, bit the apple, right? You wish you never did. 

[00:07:38] Paulo: [00:07:38] If you want me to say that, I wish I never bit the apple at the time and what it does. It's fantastic, but I'm stuck in the world now and I can't get my podcasts across.

[00:07:47] I tried last year to go to Spotify. And it's just too hard. So I'm back with apple and that's what I wish. 

[00:07:54] Candice: [00:07:54] Awesome. Thank you. That was a really comprehensive answer. Thank you for that. I mentioned, I'll ask everyone as a listener and as a producer, 

[00:08:03] do you have any, any particular tips for somebody who has a great podcasting idea?

[00:08:09] They think it's unique. think it's fabulous. They think it's awesome. Why do they need to do, why do they need to know? What do they need to do 

[00:08:18] Paulo: [00:08:18] first, firstly, get over that your idea's unique, uh, because someone else would have done it. What you have is they don't have you. So I think it's just about going, like when you're going to get into your podcast and whatever idea you want to do, whatever you want to follow is that don't think that you've got the most unique podcast idea in the world, but just remember that you have you, the next thing I'd say is that if you haven't started your podcast yet, Just start it, just do it because everyone goes, oh, but I'm waiting for this.

[00:08:50] I'm waiting for a mic. I'm waiting for a studio. I'm waiting for, don't wait, do it because I guarantee you, you can have all that set up and go through it. And you'll hate your first episode guaranteed. I’ve recorded podcast episodes with the simplest equipment in people's bedrooms and I’ve recorded in world-class studios, people hate their first episode.

[00:09:09] So just get over that. And I think those are the two barriers to get over first, just one and done, get it done, get it out there. Um, and then, like I say, before you switch on a mic, most importantly, I'd say you can podcast without a mic. You can podcast without fancy equipment. You can podcasts without soundproofing.

[00:09:26] Think about where it's going to go. And that's the most important thing, because if you put your podcasts in the wrong place to begin with, you're going to get no traction, no response, and it's going to put you off. So just think, spend all your time thinking about where it goes and I'll keep bringing it up.

[00:09:43] If it doesn't go in the right place, you're wasting your time. You can have the best idea in the wrong place. No, one's going to listen to it. Right. 

[00:09:49] Candice: [00:09:49] And then what do they need to know 

[00:09:51] about about podcasting and what lies ahead?

[00:09:54] Paulo: [00:09:54] You're not gonna make money. I think that's, I think that's the misconception or maybe it's maybe it's not a misconception at all. A podcast

[00:10:08] isn't a tool to make money. There are a handful of people in the country that make meaningful money, out of the podcast alone, look at your podcast as a tool to promote you. So maybe you're a consultant. You have a business, you got knowledge, you got a skill. Your podcast is a marketing tool to get people into another side of your business.

[00:10:31] If you're just doing it as fun, and maybe you want to do a sports podcast with your friends. That's fine. Do it as that, but don't expect to become rich and that shouldn't be your main motivating factor. Figure out ways to get rich from your podcast. Use your podcast to promote things that can make you money.

[00:10:47] You know, I mean, if in, in, in more, Or out of COVID times. So, I mean, the merch is easy, but invite people to live recordings of your podcast. Even if you get 20 people in paying a cover charge that pays for a podcast, then the content lives by itself. So you're not going to get rich out of it. Uh, but it's sort of use it to make money or grant expertise, or put yourself in front of people and opportunities that you can make money out of.

[00:11:17] But if that's not your aim, um, Just have fun. Know you're going to suck to start off with, but just one day you'll be great. And you won't remember how you got great, but you just did because you practiced and you did a lot of them. All right. 

[00:11:29] Candice: [00:11:29] So I'm going to ask you to do, to think back to your favourite podcast.

[00:11:35] It could be, it could be one that, well, there's two, there's one that you listen to and there's one that you produced. Um, so proudest piece of work. Um, or what you think people should aspire doing in terms of quality in terms of podcast, content creation and that kind of stuff. So it's a two-parter? 

[00:12:00] Paulo: [00:12:00] I think that's such an, I think that's such an interesting question, but it's probably the reason why podcasts also popular because there's no one size fits all or one thing for everybody because

[00:12:10] I've heard podcasts done by one person talking to you on a microphone that is engaging as interesting as these podcasts produced in, you know, Grammy award-winning studios. So I think there's a little bit of everything for everybody. And that's the beauty of the medium, um, my favourite podcast and their story is just so fantastic.

[00:12:31] And, and, um, I'm lucky to be in contact with them. It's one of the first podcasts I came across called the football ramble and it's just four guys. And they started out in their kitchen and they four best friends and they started talking about football. And they've now grown themselves over 12, 15 years into like a leading podcast network in the UK of where now they've got like big name, TV, broadcasters on their podcast with them.

[00:12:57] Uh, they're a viable business that all quit their jobs to now, um, you know, work within this podcasting business. They've got 10/12 podcasts that come out of the stable. And, but yet the podcast they show has never changed. It's just four friends talking and it's engaging and it's fun and there's no high end production.

[00:13:15] There's no storytelling, there's no creative. They just really good guys that you like listening to. And just watching their journey has been amazing because, and also, I don't think they ever went into it to make money, but it just happened because they were the right people. Um, And then, then on the other hand.

[00:13:33] So that's what I like listening to. Um, there's not to say, um, I'm more, um, more preferred round table, top of discussion podcasts than the produced narrative, type of ones I tend to, but that's more me. I'm just, I just got no attention span. I prefer biographical stuff than fiction or, or, or anything

[00:13:56] that's a little bit of a produced, so that's not that yeah, there. In terms of what I'm most proud of producing

[00:14:06] is. 

[00:14:07] I mean, I've done podcasts for massive, massive brands that do various jobs and, and they work well. But the podcast I'm most proud of is a really tiny podcast. And I'm talking out of podcasts that I do do myself, but it was a really tiny podcasts that we produced. It was two young mothers and they ran a, like a sort of mommy blog.

[00:14:35] And they said to me that like to do a podcast and we produced this podcast for them. And it was just about the struggles that young mothers go to go through and they are two sisters. And they would just come into the studio once a week and would record each week. It'd be a different topic, but they were so real and raw and just, I mean, every episode ended up like a therapy session for the two of them.

[00:14:57] This was just the time in the week, just to offload and talk about their frustrations and the challenges and the joys and the good things that have happened. And they were just normal moms. There was nothing spectacular about it. And they were just normal, real people, but because they were so raw and so real, and we leveraged the blog base and we pushed the podcast out to them to start building a following, but the engagement and the, the, the way people just responded to them, just because they left it all out there.

[00:15:25] There were tears. They were crying. There were things revealed that. I mean, they at times would say, please cut that out to come put that up there. But the audience just resonated and they were just like, my God, I love them. Um, and to this day, people still pick up the content every now and again and get in touch with me and go, Hey, we'd like to do this or that.

[00:15:42] And unfortunately, because they busy moms, they had to stop the podcast. But I think just for them, they weren’t broadcast people they weren’t media people that were really raw and they just opened themselves up and it just created like really, really powerful audio. 

[00:16:00] Candice: [00:16:00] Wow. That's really 

[00:16:01] awesome. That sounds really awesome.

[00:16:03] I'm gonna, I'm gonna, um, I'm gonna check them out. I think I seen mention of them on your LinkedIn profile, correct?

[00:16:10] Paulo: [00:16:10] Yeah. The rookie, the rookie parents society. 

[00:16:13] Candice: [00:16:13] Yes. Equipment tips for, 

[00:16:16] for people starting out, you know, do you need a 

[00:16:18] microphone? What kind of microphone? Um, you know, that kind of stuff

[00:16:24] Paulo: [00:16:24] In terms of equipment and I think this is the one thing that holds people back. Cause I say, oh, I'm not going to start until I have a microphone. And I think that's like, uh, that's just an excuse for you to not start, uh, look, you know, the same way as that, like you can go into YouTube and film, YouTube videos with your phone.

[00:16:43] You can quite easily, you know, in a well-treated room and you’ve soundproofed, properly even sitting in your car, you can produce a podcast off your phone. I would recommend if you're serious about getting a microphone, at least, um, a decent microphone that you can plug into your laptop or even into your phone, but try to get something can plug into your laptop.

[00:17:01] Um, How much do you spend? I mean, listen, this is up to you and how, how serious you are about it. There's anything ranging, you know, you can spend a fortune on a microphone, but just at least try spend a thousand Rand on a microphone, you know, just commit to it, because then you're going to do it. If you spend a thousand on a microphone, you're gonna make a podcast.

[00:17:21] cause...