Art Lexica: Film and Documentary Making

Wesley Pepper chats to award winning Filmmaker, Documentarian and Editor, Ikaye Masisi. This is a podcast where we talk art and art processes. Masisi also looks at the impact of COVID-19 on the film industry.

Transcript

Wesley: [00:00:00] Everybody Wesley pepper and you're tuned into my podcast. Wesley Pepper’s art Lexica, which is brought to you by spudcaster and baobulb. Yeah. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Uh, welcome to all my new and returning. Listeners, uh, greetings to you all, you know, I hope you guys enjoyed last week's or the last two episodes we had.

[00:00:29] Um, I thought that was really insightful. Thanks to Wilson Ngoni for coming through and blessing us with these time. You know, we really uncovered his entire, uh, Really covered his entire story. As an artist, you look at his work, his processes, and even his book. Uh, and just to recap, you guys are still interested in purchasing his book.

[00:00:49] Remember you can find it on his Facebook page or use WhatsApp number. Um, I don't have the number in front of me, but I know it's on last week's episode, so yeah, you can have a. Or, I mean, if you really, if you can't find that, just holler at me and I'll, you know, I'll forward it through to you. Yeah. I mean, uh, my thanks again to Wilson once again, man.

[00:01:07] Um, as I said I really enjoyed that man. And, um, today's episode. Um, we taking another. Rather, I'm talking to another very, very interesting brother. I'm talking to Ikaye Masisi. He is an editor and a filmmaker. Um, he also does a lot of documentaries. He works on a whole host of, uh, projects, you know, uh, shows that I'm sure some of you are probably are familiar with his work.

[00:01:29] You just didn't know that he was behind the editing of it. He's also quite a, uh, award-winning brother, um, as recently. Um, well, early on this year, he actually won another editing, um, award. Um, and, uh, we definitely gonna be covering that. We're gonna be covering, we're gonna be talking about these processes.

[00:01:46] Of course, you know, how we choose his subject matter, because if you know something about Ikaye’s work, you know, um, he does documentaries on really the, on and he does projects on things that personally, that I'm very, very interested in, you know, um, I remember watching one of these documentaries called I’m a Poet not too long ago and I loved it and I really loved it.

[00:02:05] I loved his approach. I loved his technique and everything. And as you guys know, like I'm really, really passionate and I've got an interesting history where the, um, with the spoken word. Um, so we're going to be covering a bit of all of that today, you know, Talk about these awards and his current and future projects.

[00:02:22] So stay tuned for that. That should be on about, uh, that should be a lot of fun. Um, let's just remember that the art giveaway is well, it's actually always up for grabs, you know, even though, um, um, somebody might win it. I'll just create another one because the thing is, I just want to attract more listeners and I do want to give away more art so that you have a, so if you want an art to receive any of the artwork, you know, just like, and subscribe to this, um, um, Episode, you know, and I'll choose a name at random and you will win yourself, original artwork done by yours truly.

[00:02:51] And, uh, stay tuned for that. Um, or rather I'll talk to you at the end of the interview, um, with regards to future episodes and a bunch of other things brewing on the horizon, you know, there's always, it's always a lot of that. Yeah, man. And, um, I'll chat to you at the end of today's episode with regards to that, but for now, you know, guys, uh, enjoy today's episode, with Ikaye, um, I've actually been looking to get hold of him for some time.

[00:03:16] Now it's just a matter of scheduling and timing and those types of things, but we finally got a hold of him and, um, we looking forward to talking today, so hope you guys enjoy today's episode. Yeah, man. And I'll chat to you’s right after this. 

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[00:03:47] Wesley: [00:03:47] We good, man. How are you doing Ikaye? Thanks for coming through. Um, Ikaye: I'm blessed, dog. Wesley: Yeah. Yeah. You always got a very laid back vibe to you. You know so

[00:04:04] yeah, you always come back as like it’s just water off a ducks back, um, but I liked that. Uh, it's um, I can feed off it,

[00:04:17] my brother,

[00:04:25] Let’s start off in the beginning, man. So you’re an editor and a filmmaker right. I know you from more the documentary side of everything.

[00:04:30] And as we were saying off air, um, um, we, you know, I read this article which says we actually in the golden area of documentaries which is waar man,

[00:04:38] um, I mean, Filmmakers switching to that medium. And I know there's many other uses and I want to pick your brain about that. But before we get into that, because I know you just recently won an award as well. Um, so let's unpick the elephant bit for bit, and then, uh, let’s just start off for my listeners and then just tell us, uh, where you from that type of thing and how did you get into film making, bra?

[00:05:08] Ikaye: [00:05:08] Okay. That award thing I got nominated at the SAFTAS, I didn't get an award.

[00:05:11] Wesley: [00:05:11] Um,

[00:05:17] uh, I don’t want to get ahead of myself. Sure um, we we'll get to that bit, um, but let's just talk about like, how did you get into filmmaking, bro? 

[00:05:26] Ikaye: [00:05:26] Um, filmmaking, right? Um, dog, so like, The first film that I saw that kind of inspired me was like a pair of boots and a bicycle. Right. That vibe, dog, so it was like a pair of boots and a bicycle.

[00:05:46] And then there was that show that, um, it was like a reality, extra reality show, Scoop Makhathini and then kind of was that show. But that show was so hot like, um, One of those two shows those two shows inspired. Right. But then the real, the real, th th the actual documentary that inspired me was this one pair of boots and a bicycle, because like, it was done by black editors, black directors, black producers, like, so, because like, when you watch this, when you watch the credits, it's like a lot of white people.

[00:06:18] So you don't think like, you know what I'm saying? Um, And you don’t see yourself there. Right. But when I saw, like, this is such a dope documentary on SABC 1 nogal, right. Black people that are running this thing, and I'm like, and it's so hot and it's so dope, right. That kind of inspired me. And then later came on uBra meek and the work that they we're doing, uh, about Robert Sobukwe, you know what I'm saying?

[00:06:42] And then [indistinct] Matabane as well, all the works that were like black guys were doing at that time, that actually did. I'm like, okay, cool. It's possible that I, from Thaba Nchu, it’s in the Free State next to. Um, well, it's next to Bloemfontein and whatever. You know what I’m saying. Uh, I'm from that side. That's where I grew up.

[00:07:06] That's where I was born. My parents is at. My mom's is at. My grandma’s is at. That's where, that's where my roots is. If I have to put it in Tswana you feel what I'm saying? So that's what I'm from. Um, so I got inspired by this thing, right. This work that I saw and, you know, kind of tickled my creative, my creative sensibilities.

[00:07:29] Right. And then I felt like I could be able to work this. Right. And there wasn't a time when I was, you know, like after matric and then you have to decide what you want to do. You know, it wasn't that bad at school. You know what I'm saying. It wasn't that bad. At school I wasn’t bad with math. So it wasn't bad. Like, it was pretty cool, but like, It felt like spiritually, my creative sensibilities were more like, like just, you know what I'm saying?

[00:07:54] They were gnawing at me, dog like, you know what I'm saying? And like, um, when I saw this shit, I'm like, fuck, I need to make films, bro. I feel like. There's also that part of under representation as well. I think that's what brought me into feeling that there's so many dope stories, black stories that are out there, our history and whatnot, which is not properly, um, documented and not, you know, and that's what kind of inspired me to like, mess with this.

[00:08:21] You know what I'm saying? Uh, mess with this vibe. Can we curse on you on this podcast   Wesley: We can but I mean like this is not a bar

[00:08:41] Ikaye: So for sheezy. So from that. Uh, I came to the J came to the J's that at, uh, uh, I studied at Nemisa, um, I was actually shooting that side. Actually. I was then starting to become an editor. I wanted to shoot, like I wanted to become a cinematographer, but then editing just called me, bro. You know, it's one of those things, like a fate thing, you know what I mean?

[00:09:04] And then you feel me. I've got to meet up with Delize Moabe, Delize’s the guy who actually 

[00:09:13] hit me up with SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM Sims. You know what I mean? Um, and that's how I got the connection to go to work with the greatest document, the greatest work. That I did so far was actually with the dude that created a pair of boots and a bicycle, which is Vincent Moloi, you know, it gave me an opportunity.

[00:09:37] you know, give us an opportunity as young editors to come into the game and learn this thing, because this shit is hard to come into is fucking hard, bro. People think this shit is like, it's easy, but like fucking, dog, I think in terms of like filmmaking documentary is the hardest, you know, drama's easy, bro. Dramas scripted.

[00:09:54] Everything's scripted, scripted television is very easy, but like documentary, you've got to fucking find a story. You've got to find this. You got to, and then you've got to say, you gotta, yeah, you gotta set. You literally, it's like literally working on a blank canvas right where everything like literally you have to kind of, um, Draw or paint.

[00:10:22] You feel what I'm saying even with your characters, because the shit that you shoot in the field, it might come back in the timeline and it might not work in the editing suite. Right. And you've got to find a way, you know, uh, so I think like, fuck, the documentary documentary is hard, bro. Documentary is hard, dog. It's hard. But like, I love it.

[00:10:38] I enjoy it because like it's important because it's a way it's a tool to actually catch up people's stories and to tell like those untold stories about people. You know what I'm saying, which way, which is what I feel like the work is important for, uh, for me, you know, as, um, as a visual creative. Yeah.

[00:11:00] That's the five G

[00:11:00] Wesley: [00:11:00] yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting just a point on that a pair of boots and a bicycle I’ve watched that and just for the listeners that was about the soldiers who fought in world war two. They came back and the government gave them a pair of boots and a bicycle the white boys got land.

[00:11:08] Um,

[00:11:21] Ikaye: [00:11:21] Imagine that shit, dog.

[00:11:30] Do you understand how touching that subject matter is. Like our ancestors

[00:11:33] ancestors, our grandparents, bro! Wesley: for sure. And then we see all these monuments of whoever fought in world war two celebrating those who gave their lives for Europe.

[00:11:43] like one of the one thing that resonated the most from that doccie was the part where the one, one guy says that there was an attack. I think it was in um Egypt somewhere.

[00:11:57] Yeah. Yeah. They didn't have any weapons so they had to hide under the wa. They were literally sort of almost drowning from trying to dodge bullets that was flying. That thing was heavy, and the way they explained that, wow. And like, on that what you were saying about editing I totally get what you’re saying because

[00:12:18] you know, the way the documentary or the film maker presented that, and you could feel the pain,

[00:12:24] uh, the confusion. I guess it just the mayhem and fuck man, that thing was heavy. Find enough here’s just a story. Personal thing on my side, my mother’s father, uh, my mother's grandfather. Who was it? Or was it father, one of them. Yeah. He was a German fella, uh, he fought I don't know with or whatever but he came to South Africa. He got a taste of africa and didn’t want to leave.

[00:12:56] Um, and he was one of the guys where they gave a farm, can you believe that? That’s how my mother's side of the family. So yeah, I could, I could, I could resonate with that, with that thing over there. So moving on, man. 

[00:13:16] Ikaye: [00:13:16] Funny story, my great grandfather, my great-grandfather actually went to that war. There’s actually like a gun like them old school guns. He's got that.

[00:13:27] Yeah. Yeah, B yeah, B, he actually went out there, but he actually came back. You know what I'm saying? Um, and like I was told that during the time, my grand, my great-grandmother cause we had a farm at home and we had a school, the first school in Thaba Nchu the first like proper formal education school. Even the first church

[00:13:53] my grandmother was running that shit. She was running this, she was running the church. She was even running the farm, bruh. My grandfather was fighting and then he came back. Shit. That's like fucking crazy. Like when I saw that shit, I’m like yo dog damn it’s, like, I don't know, man. It's some weird shit, but like it's dope.

[00:14:11] It's dope though. You know, it's like the spirits connect. Do you know what I mean? 

[00:14:15] Wesley: [00:14:15] That's actually, that's actually where I want to, because you're saying like, one thing I know about artists is like, you are chosen to do this gig. You know, you either have it or you don't. So if you telling me, like all of these things, sort of lead up to you saying I want to tell sort of African stories using the medium of film, that's actually where I went to, where I want to jump to from hear.

[00:14:41] So explain to me. So once you, um, the processes, so once you can see, this is where I want to go, you know, these are my influences. This is, you know, these guys XYZ. I have these skills. Where to from there

[00:15:01] and how did you get into what you're doing right now?

[00:15:03] Ikaye: [00:15:03] Well, it was like a cause with editing, I feel like editing is like long and like hard, you know? So it was like a very long slow process in terms of like developing. Um, so it led from, I feel like it's more like it's, it's both external and internal in terms of like externally the type of projects that you, you find yourself within, you know what I'm saying?

[00:15:35] that kind of build you, yeah. That kind of build a skill right. For, in terms of like storytelling, right. Uh, which is very, very important in terms of that. But when you, when you come up right. To understand what is story, what is correct? Because people take that for granted. 

[00:15:55] Wesley: [00:15:55] Yeah, I know what you’re saying.

[00:15:57] Uh, you were saying about the editing, man. 

[00:16:01] Ikaye: [00:16:01] Yeah, dog. So I would say the thing with it is that for me, and that's what I kind of feel like in terms of like, development, right? Is that like, this shit is long and it's hard and like, um, it just needs you to kind of. Um, have a love for it. Right. Um, you know, cause like when you see, when you see a picture, when you see a story in television, it feels so simple.

[00:16:25] Right. But like behind the scenes for them to make it that simple, like took sometimes years, you know, just to get it to that level, you feel what I'm saying? So that's the thing with documentary and you can never really, um, kinda like from the start, you can’t say this story. This is where the story's going to be.

[00:16:45] You might might've written it and whatnot. The shit doesn't work out, right. Characters is not working. Even the concept is not working. The themes are. Everything is kind of off and then you kind of just need to adapt. Right. And that's the thing with it. Right. And South Africa doesn't have a very strong documentary culture.

[00:17:01] You feel what I'm saying? Um, just in terms of like, it's there, but like the biggest people that are behind the documentaries is SABC but SABC is falling apart. Right? So like it's a big problem in terms of like developing documentary film makers. Right. It's very tough for us because like now we've got to do it independent shit like that.

[00:17:19] Got to wait for years and whatnot. And it's like gatekeeping, how many?  like, it's not, it's not it's it's, it's not somebody from, let's say like film school or somebody that has a film background or somebody that's like wants to get into documentary. Cut documentary straight up, right? Because, um, firstly, you don't have the experience.

[00:17:41] Firstly, we don't trust you like this. There's a lot of things that are happening, right. So you need to prove yourself and for you to prove yourself as like fucking difficult, right? It's very difficult though. Like you mentioned having to cut like a feature, right? Or like, even like a, let's say a 30 minute documentary.

[00:17:58] It's fucking tough. It's not easy dog. You know, you see a lot of shit. That's on YouTube and you're like, Hey man. But what the hell is going on here!

[00:18:09] you can see that there's an art to it. You feel me? That's actually what the old cats are still. Are still the ones that are like running this game because like it requires that, you know, it requires that experience and people are able to just trust you with their footage if you've cut that shit before.

[00:18:27] Right. So that's the vibe about it, you know, so, so fuck man. It's I think it's a thing of luck and I think it's also a thing of like calling, purpose

[00:18:41] and also where you are kind of in the industry and what you feel and shit like that. Right. Um, you know what I mean? But like it creates good editors. Documentaries creates good editors. That's what I kind of feel. You know what I mean? That background is like fucking that documentary background. Like for me, it's like, you can figure out a story quick,

[00:19:03] you...