How To Podcast: Episode 3

This episode features Solid Gold Podcasts Gavin Kennedy! We discuss the future of podcasting and the unbridled power of the spoken word. In this podcast series, Candice Nolan interviews professional podcasters or people working in the podcasting industry.

Transcript

Spudcaster: [00:00:00] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcasts your life with baobulb.org.

[00:00:24] Candice: [00:00:24] Thank you so much for all of your help in getting this set up and your patience. I appreciate it. So we'll start off first. If you wouldn't mind, just introducing yourself for my listeners, your name for the record and in what capacity you're speaking to me. 

[00:00:35] Gavin: [00:00:35] Oh, well, nice to meet you, Candice. I've seen a couple of your posts on social media and seen your website. It's great work you guys are doing as well.

[00:00:42] My name is Gavin Kennedy. I've founded Solid Gold Podcasts a good few years ago. Funny enough, after driving around in my car one day, I just realised I wasn't listening to the radio anymore. I was just listening to podcasts and, uh, And wondered if this was going to be a thing. So, you know, it was a few years ago, added a studio and started making podcasts and added another one and another one and another one.

[00:01:02] And, uh, we're up to 11 studios now. And yeah, we, we got this amazing podcast, creative hub. It's a space where people engage with the spoken words. In and out of the building, people here to research record scripts, voiceover, audio, books, and podcasts. That's what we're doing. 

[00:01:23] Candice: [00:01:23] Tell me what was it that, what was the moment when the podcast bug hit?

[00:01:28] Was there like a particular moment where you fell in love with radio? Or has it always been something that's part of you

[00:01:34] Gavin: [00:01:34] I've been in radio and television about 30 years, uh, we were, we were involved in the very early days when broadcasting was deregulated and SABC sold its stations and there were a whole lot of new applicants.

[00:01:49] Uh, we applied for a license and unfortunately we didn't get it, but we kept the solid gold brand and we did a whole lot of other things along the way. So we did in store radio, we've done all sorts of things. Uh, I was first a podcast listener 15, 16 years ago when podcasting first happened, you know, back then it was really hard.

[00:02:05] You had to find an RSS feed and copy it to iTunes and then synchronise iTunes and then synchronise your iPod with iTunes. So I did that for a little while, a couple of years, and then it just, it's just too much work and gave it up and. Must been nearly 10 years again before came back to podcasting and, uh, came back strong.

[00:02:24] You know, it's, the friction has been removed with the iPhone, making it easy to integrate everything. That's probably the thing that made it all revive. And we got back into it again. 

[00:02:36] Candice: [00:02:36] But what was the thing that made you fall in love with the spoken word? You mentioned the spoken word. 

[00:02:42] Gavin: [00:02:42] Wow. Uh, it's it's it's a long time ago.

[00:02:45] It's kind of a sequence of things. Yeah, well, very funny story. We were sitting in office one Thursday afternoon, when somebody came in and said, we received a temporary broadcast license for an event. And that was Thursday, but we had to be on air by the Sunday. So between Thursday afternoon in a country that had no independent broadcasting, we set up a radio station, built it, equipped, it, hired the people and started broadcasting from the Victoria showgrounds that same Sunday night, it was just such a buzz, um, to start a radio station like that.

[00:03:20] Candice: [00:03:20] Oh, that's awesome. That's like the dream, isn't it? I mean, that's the thing. Wow. That's awesome. 

[00:03:26] Gavin: [00:03:26] Okay. It was an interesting time there in the nineties. 

[00:03:30] Candice: [00:03:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can imagine that. Must've been really exciting.

[00:03:31] Gavin: [00:03:31] There's lots of other things along the way. I just, I think there's something innate in us.

[00:03:36] I think as, as a species, you know, we're a couple of hundred thousand years old and it's only the last 10 or so thousand years, maybe 20,000 years that we've been able to write down and recall history and our stories. Uh, other than that, for the majority of our human existence, it's been oral, it's just been oral tradition.

[00:03:55] So I think the spoken word and podcasting and audio books and, and this whole genre, this whole thing we're experiencing, I think it taps into something fundamental about being human that we like to tell stories. We like to hear stories. We like to share our experiences in an oral way. 

[00:04:11] Candice: [00:04:11] Hmm. No, that's, that's a perfect answer to the question.

[00:04:13] Just give us a bit more information around your background and how you got into podcasting. You mentioned that you worked in television and radio. Um, what, what made you jump to podcasting in particular, did you get bored of radio and TV? 

[00:04:32] Gavin: [00:04:32] I think maybe not to do with boredom. Um, it's to do with part of the reason that there are a number of reasons podcasting is exploding, and one of them is the De-networkificationb.

[00:04:40] If, if, uh, if that's a word, you know, most of the time I've been involved in broadcasting, we were reliant on networks. We only got work if SABC or MNET hired us. It wasn't like we could get up one day and say, let's do something let's make television. There was no way to put the television. Let's make radio.

[00:04:56] Now we can't get a license. It was a very restricted network, vertical environment, and very, very controlled. And that's frustrating. You go, I've got this great idea. Let's make this program. Oh, wait, hang on. Let me go first see if it matches what one of the networks wants to do, and if they'll buy it from us and let us make it for them, you know, if they feel nice about it.

[00:05:15] Um, and there's been a democratisation by saying let's de-network. Whatever content I feel like, and put it up there and make it available as a podcast or a YouTube channel, um, without being reliant on a network. So, so it's that shift towards content being the most important thing up until now it well not up until now up until more recently the network was what controlled media, but it's not anymore.

[00:05:38] Now it's content that's going to drive things. 

[00:05:40] Candice: [00:05:40] Okay. What do you wish you knew when you started out podcasting? And I'm talking both as a podcaster and as a listener. 

[00:05:51] Gavin: [00:05:51] Golden rule. Don't wait to start, just get going, man. Um, if you're not embarrassed about your first podcast then you waited too long to make your first podcast, you know, you really just got to get out there and do it.

[00:06:02] Um, I think that can be a paralysis and spending too much time in planning this perfect series and podcasts. And, and, and I'm not suggesting that pick up your phone and start a 10 pod series without giving it some thought, um, you should have a strategy. You should have a plan. You should have an objective.

[00:06:18] You should have measureables that relate to it, but don't overthink it because by the time you've made three or four episodes, your thinking has changed and your, your creative process should respond to what's happening. So, yeah. Start just start, but have a purpose. Don’t just think that people want to hear you and your two friends sitting around talking garbage and no, they don't, but if you're talking garbage about a specific topic and you're all well versed on it and the purpose is to inform them on it, then yeah.

[00:06:47] There's, there's a possibility that will be engaging. As a studio. Wow. You know, there are a few, there are a few people in South Africa who are quite early to the space and there's some people who've been making podcasts for 10 years, uh, in, in South Africa that that's really something. I think it, would it be nice

[00:07:06] It would have been nice to know when the growth explosion was going to happen. Uh, you know, look into the future. I think one of the advantages we have is we are following a very similar trajectory to what the United States and Europe are following. So it's in a sense it's quite predictable that private podcasting is going to be big. Branded and corporate podcasting is gonna be big.

[00:07:27] Yeah, what do I wish I'd known sooner. That's a really, if I can go back. Yeah. Build, build more studios sooner is what I wish I did. 

[00:07:35] Candice: [00:07:35] Okay, just get on top of the curve before it hit basically 

[00:07:39] Gavin: [00:07:39] Capacity creates opportunity. If you've got one studio and a whole bunch of people lined up for it, uh, it looks like X. If you've got two, then somebody can walk in with a spontaneous an idea.

[00:07:51] You know, the number of studios we've got. Now, you can pretty much walk in here at any time and not wait very long and we can squeeze you into one of the studios, which means you can go from ideation to published in a very, very short period of time. I think there's value. 

[00:08:04] Candice: [00:08:04] Let's dispel some myths and talk about the monetisation question.

[00:08:09] What is the potential of podcasting in terms of, um, generating income or generating some kind of income for hosts or for studios like yourself? Have you guys found the winning formula? 

[00:08:24] Gavin: [00:08:24] The three fundamental questions that podcasters are, uh, dealing with, you know, it's, um, advertising or monetisation of podcasts is one of the big challenges and there's no simple answers.

[00:08:34] It's a multifaceted, almost a trick question. So let's look at the highlights of who monetises podcasts best. And then we come to Joe Rogan, podcasting didn't make Joe Rogan famous. He didn't make his money out of podcasting. He was famous already. So Joe Rogan is making podcasting famous, not the other way round.

[00:08:51] He already had a following. He was already able to monetise whatever he does. You know, if he decided to put vinyl stickers on cars with his name on it, he'll make money out of it. Cause he's Joe Rogan. So for you and I to start a podcast and say, we want to be the next Joe Rogan, it's not apples and apples.

[00:09:07] He started famous from somewhere else and brought that fame into a new medium. So in that respect, trying to be a mass medium is really, really hard. It's as hard as trying to be a radio star or a TV store or an influencer it's as hard to make money out of podcasting as it is out of all of those, it's not unique.

[00:09:25] In other regards, you know, when we talk about, uh, the majority of our work is corporate work, we work with brands and, and, and listed companies and SMEs in a lot of respects. Podcasting is like a billboard or a business card. I don't know if you remember business cause pre pandemic, Candice, we used to print them and hand them out.

[00:09:45] Candice: Yeah, yeah,

[00:09:49] Gavin: yeah. Right. So, so, so let's look at a podcast as a form of business card ho how did you justify spending money on business cards? How did you monetise your business cards? Hmm, you're not trying to sell a business card. So the printer can monetise business cards. They print business cards and get paid for them. So in a respect of being a studio is people pay us to make podcasts.

[00:10:07] So that side looks a lot like being a printer, printing business cards, but printing the business card. That's cool. And people look at it and go, oh, that's a cool card. And they remember you. And they remember what you do is the real value of the business card. So if you look at podcasting as that, It's a way to introduce yourself to people, make them understand or help them understand who you are, what you do, and take them through the journey from know who you are.

[00:10:30] Like you trust you, try your product, buy your product, repeat, buy your product, then refer your product to somebody else that, that whole sequence, the podcast can play an important roll in leading customers of your real product and service through that journey, not podcasting being the service to the end product, but r[00:10:52] 

[00:10:52] Candice: [00:10:52] I love that answer that analogy because it's actually spot on that's exactly what a podcast is. It's, it's, it's a presentation of something.

[00:11:00] Gavin: [00:11:00] Yeah, it can be it's, you know, it's not, for some people, we get a number of people coming here and they just want to make a podcast. It's like saying, Candice, do you play the piano?

[00:11:11] And you love playing the piano, but you have no intention of playing for an orchestra. There might be part of you that says I can't wait to save up to buy a baby grand piano and spend a couple of hundred thousand on it and play beautiful music in my, in my lounge with no intention of monetising that.

[00:11:25] So, so there's that, I mean, if you take up mountain biking and spend a couple of hundred thousand rent on a bicycle without any intention of monetising it, so it's okay to be a podcast as a whole. And like any other hobby you spend time and money doing it. You don't have to buy a great baby grand piano to monetise and you don't have to make a podcast to monetise it.

[00:11:46] It's perfectly okay for a podcast to be a hobby. It does, it doesn't have to be monetised. Um, but the most sensible way to monetise a podcast. Is to integrate it into overall communication strategy. It's part of that. You wouldn't go well, I made a podcast. I can stop all my printing brochures or I can delete my website.

[00:12:04] No, it just fits into that. It fits in a very useful way in that Google are prioritising voice now. So Google transcribes podcasts and index the spoken word. So a year or two from now, you're gonna be able to search for a sentence in natural language and Google will come back and say, well, that phrase was used in a podcast.

[00:12:23] Would you like to listen to the podcast on that? Candice: Wow. Gavin: And that's extremely valuable. 

[00:12:28] Candice: [00:12:28] Yeah, that that would be, I mean, imagine research purposes, just getting your, your information out. It's just the potential is that's awesome. That's cool. 

[00:12:38] Gavin: [00:12:38] Voice search optimisation is going to massively overtake search engine optimisation.

[00:12:42] You know, natural language spoken word is very different from the way you use text to search. And if you're looking for a restaurant, you'll just say restaurant, Cape town. But when you're speaking, you'll go, Hey, Google. I’m looking for an Italian restaurant in downtown Joburg or CBD, and that's different.

[00:13:00] And it's going to come back to you with different stuff. When it's spoken word, rather than sending you to a website, it's going to send you to podcasts and you're a hundred percent, right. In terms of research, it's going to be amazing. 

[00:13:10] Candice: [00:13:10] This leads me to my next question. What do you think the future is of podcasting?

[00:13:15] Gavin: [00:13:15] You know, podcasting kind of has multiple meanings would podcast. And we're still in a very interesting stage. It's very nascent and there are a lot of people still discovering podcasts for the first time every day. I mean, I'm sure you four or five years ago when you mentioned a podcast, people said, huh, and now they're going, I don't know where to find them.

[00:13:30] And now they're asking for recommendations on which ones to listen to. And there's still people down your street who don't know what a podcast is. So it's early. So what a podcast really. Is a little bit vague for some people. So technically a podcast is something with an RSS feed that you can listen to with a podcast player.

[00:13:49] But when people say I'm going to listen to a podcast, we'll make a podcast. What they really mean is I'm going to record a conversation between me and somebody else and share it with people. So it's like a radio show, but made by me whether it's available on apple, on Spotify or whether I have an audio file that I sent by WhatsApp, that's a podcast.

[00:14:11] So it's kind of has those two meanings. I think the word podcast is going to become less and less important as time goes. You know, you, you don't go down, you don't go down to the nearby shop and get The Argus newspaper. You just go and get The Argus. Yeah, and I think we're going to find, we don't go sit and go listen to the XYZ podcast.

[00:14:29] We're just going to go say, Hey, have you listened to Candice's conversation with Gavin. The word podcast doesn't add so much value five years from now. Right now it helps people contextualise or understand where to find it. But I think that's the only thing that's going to go away. The spoken words, not going anywhere.

[00:14:47] Audiobooks overtook eBooks in 2020, Amazon audible sold more audio books than Kindle eBooks. That's not going to slow down. We've seen massive growth in self published, audio books, author read, and I think we're going to see a massive iteration and a massive explosion in the kinds of things that people are doing with spoken word.

[00:15:09] So we're already seeing private podcast intended for companies to use internally, uh, welcome to the company, listened to this series of podcasts as part of your onboarding process, weekly, monthly communication, premium content. So as a company with a client, you push out some of your content to the public, but some of it you make premium value for your paying subscribers or your paying customers, not trying to monetise the podcast, but you're trying to add value to the business that you really run.

[00:15:38] Um, audio books? What makes audible, the gorilla in the room with audio books is that they have a way of protecting the content. But in principle, it's very hard to tell the difference between an audio book and a podcast series. It's...