Episode 4 – Suicide in the Media Part 2, Help for Those at Suicide Risk and Suicide Loss Survivors – with Dr. Julie Cerel – Part 2 of 2

(Part 2 of 2) In this episode, Dr. Jones continues the conversation with Dr. Julie Cerel about suicide in the media (Musician Logic / MTV awards) with a focus on preventing suicide with those at risk and help for suicide loss survivors. Dr. Cerel is a Professor in the College of Social Work at the University of Kentucky and president of the American Association of Suicidology.

Episode Notes & Links:

A Mashable article quoting Dr. Cerel http://mashable.com/2017/04/19/13-reasons-why-suicide-portrayal/#JHkKoVyrOSqP

Ohio media reporting guidelines: http://mha.ohio.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=882

The song 1​-​800​-​273​-​8255 (feat. Alessia Cara & Khalid) is from the third studio album “Everybody” by Logic. It was released on May 5, 2017, © 2017 Visionary Music Group and Def Jam Recordings. Buy the song and album here: https://mindoflogic.bandcamp.com/album/everybody

QPR – Question Persuade Refer Training – https://www.qprinstitute.com/

Follow Rebecca Sandford at Twitter @rsanfordsw

Loss Team:  Frank Campbell: www.lossteam.org

Six feet over: https://www.sixftover.org/

Info on Dr. Julie Cerel:

Bio: https://socialwork.uky.edu/dr-julie-cerel/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/juliecerel

American Association of Suicidology: http://www.suicidology.org/

Seeking Hope: Stories of the Suicide Bereaved (Book) by Dr. Julie Cerel and Dr. Michelle Linn-Gust

http://a.co/i8BFy5E

Julie Cerel, Ph.D., is a Professor and a licensed psychologist in the University of Kentucky College of Social Work. Dr. Cerel completed a three year postdoctoral fellowship (NIMH: T32) in Suicide Prevention at the University of Rochester prior to joining the faculty at UK in 2005. She completed her doctoral degree in clinical psychology from The Ohio State University and an internship and clinical fellowship in child clinical psychology at West Virginia University. Her undergraduate degree is from Kenyon College.

Cerel specializes in research on suicide bereavement and exposure, suicide prevention and suicide attempt survivors. Cerel has been funded by the Military Suicide Research Consortium (MSRC), SAMHSA, American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors (TAPs) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). She is President of the American Association of Suicidology (http://www.suicidology.org) and has served as the Research Division director and Board Chair. She serves on the board of Kentucky Suicide Prevention Group (http://kentuckysuicideprevention.org/) and Our Data Helps (https://ourdatahelps.org/).

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TRANSCRIPT
Transcripts are created using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcription and may contain errors. Please check the full audio podcast in context before quoting in print.
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Dr. Jones: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the social work conversations podcast produced by the University of Kentucky College of Social Work. My name is Blake Jones. Here we explore the intersection of social work research practice and education. Our goal is to showcase the amazing people associated with our college and to give our listeners practical tools that they can use to change the world.

Dr. Jones: [00:00:24] Welcome to part two of our conversation with Dr. Julie Cerel. In part one we talked with Julie about suicide prevention suicide in the media and our work with police officers and assessing them for risk of suicide. In part two we continue our conversation on suicide in the media. We also talk with Julie about preventing suicide for those who are at risk and help for suicide last survivors. Julie welcome back.

Dr. Cerel: [00:00:52] Thanks so much for having me on.

Dr. Jones: [00:00:54] So you’ve been approached by several media outlets you’ve been on NPR. You even had a conversation with Teen Vogue I understand. Tell us about that. And you know the media sometimes is notorious for twisting things around and tell us about those experiences and how you would like for the media to portray your work.

Dr. Cerel: [00:01:14] I used to really avoid talking to the media. And recently I really have started to embrace the opportunity because it gets the message out to a much wider population than would ever read my academic work. So when a reporter asked me a question oftentimes I’ll say well that’s not the question I want to answer. Let me tell you what’s really important about the story and let’s talk about that because I think that is going to be a much richer story for your readers or listeners. And that story can lead to messages of hope and not just saying about how bad suicide might be. I’ve been really fortunate that there are some reporters out there who not only have kind of listen to me and taken some of my changes in their plans stories but have really made reporting about suicide elevated to a much higher level. So there’s a reporter at Mashable Rebecca Ruiz who I look forward to her calls because she’s going to have such thoughtful questions thinks about the exposure the effects of exposure to suicide on such a high level and then communicates it to an audience so that they care as much as we do. One of the things that I always give to reporters is the Ohio media reporting guidelines that were developed by my colleagues at Nationwide Children’s Hospital and what those do is they give really concise tips for reporters. So be concerned about your language. Don’t use the word commit use die by suicide because that’s more helpful to people. Don’t focus on the graphic details of the story but instead give a message of hope things like that.

Dr. Cerel: [00:02:53] One thing I’ve really found is that a lot of the times when I speak to reporters writing a story about suicide is their first story about suicide and they’re feeling overwhelmed and they know that messaging needs to be such that it’s not harmful to people but they just have no idea where to begin. And so it’s actually been really a good experience teaching them about how we can report about suicide in a way that gives people hope that gives them the right resources and helps them understand if they’re feeling suicidal or they’ve lost someone that they’re not alone.

Dr. Jones: [00:03:28] I wonder if we could talk a little bit. You know your your work is so important because you’re really focused on prevention. You know after after someone dies it’s so important to provide support for their family and the other hundred and some other people who were affected by that loss. But I wonder if someone’s listening to this and they have a friend or someone who talks about suicide or is suicidal. How can they help them? What should people do to help someone who is suicidal?

Dr. Cerel: [00:04:01] I think it’s always scary when you hear someone talking about suicide and people typically have a response of well it’s none of my business or I’m not trained enough to help them. And at University of Kentucky as well as lots of places over the country we do gatekeeper training. So the kind we use is called QPR question persuade refer. And it was developed by Dr. Paul Quinnett. And essentially it’s a seminar that can be taken in less than an hour and it teaches people if you think somebody isn’t acting right and they might be at risk of suicide directly ask them the question: are you thinking of suicide? And if their response is in any way indicating they are. Figure out how to get them to help. That could be calling the National Suicide Prevention Hotline 1 800 273 8255. You can have them call it or that hotline is available for anyone. So if you’re concerned about a friend and you don’t know how to talk to them you can call Lifeline. There’s also crisis textline if you don’t want to make a phone call. You can text home to 7 4 1 7 4 1 and that gets you in touch with someone who’s trained for crisis line. So we’re at a time where there are lots of ways that people can reach out to get help for themselves or somebody they care about. And so those numbers I feel like they’re just like 911. They’re the kind of numbers that everybody should keep available and not be afraid to call because if someone’s thinking about suicide and especially if they’re telling you they have the means to do it or they’re going to do it if this doesn’t happen if they don’t pass a test or if their girlfriend breaks up with them or any number of things that are a reality then we we should be getting them help.

Dr. Jones: [00:05:43] That’s great. I was watching the MTV Music Awards the other night and.

Dr. Cerel: [00:05:49] You know I know a couple of people on that stage.

Dr. Jones: [00:05:51] Yeah. And you know I’m a musician and I I’ll just throw this out there I usually tape award shows and then fast forward through probably about 90 percent and.

Dr. Cerel: [00:06:01] Then you lip sync the speeches.

Dr. Jones: [00:06:03] That’s right. Yes I do that. Yeah. But I was really intrigued by this guy Logic. Yeah. Who who had you came out and did a song and have that the number that you just said the suicide hotline number spread all over the stage and I don’t know if those were maybe survivors or.

Dr. Cerel: [00:06:21] So the people that were with him for the MTV Music Awards were suicide attempt survivors and suicide loss survivors most of them are people who have been getting services at the Deedy Hirsch mental health center and L.A.

Dr. Jones: [00:06:33] That was so powerful. I mean I rewound it and watched it several times and saw it a lot on Facebook and Twitter. But what a what a good thing that he has done.

Dr. Cerel: [00:06:46] It’s amazing it’s as much as we malign the entertainment industry as much as there’s so many bad portrayals of suicide and things that leave us without hope to be able to be on a stage that big and to have the number there and to see the range of people that are affected by suicide I think is really starting to tip the scales in terms of showing people that it’s not just an isolated group of people. These are our friends and our neighbors and people that we go to church or temple with.

Dr. Jones: [00:07:13] Yeah that’s great. I wonder how many calls they got that night.

Dr. Cerel: [00:07:16] Actually I think in the week following calls I want to say almost doubled.

Dr. Jones: [00:07:20] Wow that’s great. I might sound logic a little. I don’t know if he’s on Twitter. You know e-mails send him a letter or something but I just thank him for that. I want to go back to suicide survivors. And if you could talk a little bit about what they need in terms of help after someone they love dies.

Dr. Cerel: [00:07:44] So suicide loss survivors are the people left behind after someone dies by suicide. Our language gets a little weird about it when we think about cancer survivors for example we don’t think about their friends and loved ones but we’re kind of stuck with suicide loss survivors to compare them to suicide attempt survivors what suicide loss survivors need is as kind of a mystery at this point. unfortunately. The most prevalent services available to them are mutual help support groups. Every state has at least one there’s an online group the number of groups has increased over the years some groups meet weekly, some meet once a month and they’re all run by people many of whom are survivors themselves who do not want another person to experience what they experience in the wake of their loved one’s death. But because these are mutual help groups we don’t know what part of them helps people. And what part doesn’t. And so they don’t get reimbursed by insurance. People don’t see them as mental health services and so they’re just people helping each other the best they can. My former student Rebecca Sanford who is now a faculty in Canada having received her Ph.D. here at University of Kentucky. This is really her area of interest because what we found is that most people that lead mutual support groups for suicide survivors of suicide loss are themselves survivors of suicide loss or have no specific training.

Dr. Cerel: [00:09:21] And so in the best case scenario what we want is for the groups or for any services to help people who are briefed by suicide make meaning of the death how to take their loved one’s death and move on perhaps even a way that they have some post-traumatic growth that it puts them in a better place than they might have otherwise been after experiencing this horrible event. But most people most groups we really don’t know how that occurs. And then the next level of services that people could get would be individual therapy. I have a colleague who is a therapist and was really interested because she herself is a survivor of suicide loss and she is really interested in what kinds of experiences were people having with therapists following suicide loss because she’d heard all the horror stories. And actually what we found is that 80 percent of people said you know my therapist was pretty helpful. It was a good experience. But then when we ask them open ended questions we heard about all the worst case scenarios about how their therapist wasn’t trained to deal with suicide grief. Their therapist was kind of afraid of talking about suicide things like that. The main thing we found there is that most therapists didn’t ask about PTSD symptoms. And so for people who hadn’t necessarily seen the scene of the death when you kind of get some of the details you start to imagine it. And so when that someone you really care about. And as an aside what we’re finding is it’s not necessarily just family. It’s when you’re really close to someone. So when it’s somebody you really care about and they died by suicide oftentimes you get PTSD PTSD symptoms even if you don’t see the actual scene.

Dr. Jones: [00:11:00] Yeah that’s so interesting. And you know I’ve I’ve really thought a lot about this situation that I was involved in the other night and I thought you know there was the the wife was there the kids were in the car and it just was heartbreaking and I thought well you know I don’t even know if this is appropriate or not. Maybe I should go back up to that home and try to help her in some way or just drive by. I mean it’s been really I think I have experienced some some traumatic response to that.

Dr. Cerel: [00:11:35] That doesn’t surprise me at all and my colleague Frank Campbell in Baton Rouge has a program that he has titled local outreach to survivors of suicide. And essentially what he realized a couple of decades ago now is that most people who have the suicide of someone they care deeply about. Where do you get help. They don’t know the survivors of suicide loss. They just know they’re hurting. They’ve lost somebody they care about and they need help. And so what Dr. Campbell did is in creating this program he paired with law enforcement and the local coroner and has teams that ride along or meet them at the scene of a suicide. And they’re the intermediary so they help the family and say when you’re ready, here’s the number of a place we can go get help or give me a call when you’re starting to process this and you want help. So the law enforcement can focus on doing their job. The loss teams actually check in on the law enforcement to and say Are you guys doing this. Is this something that you need some help processing and then they’re also there for the family.

Dr. Jones: [00:12:44] That’s great. What’s the name of that program?

Dr. Cerel: [00:12:46] It’s called loss team and it is now international. So it’s become the postvention model in a lot of places around the world Northern Ireland, Singapore, Australia.

Dr. Jones: [00:13:00] Interesting. The woman who was involved in this situation the other night as we were driving away I thought about her a lot and some friends finally came and got her and took her away. But as we were driving away I sort of asked the officer out I was with you know what. What about her and he said well she was given a card right to that someone would come and clean her house for her the next day. That was about all that was given to her.

Dr. Cerel: [00:13:31] There’s a really cool organization up in the Detroit area and it was started by Katie Hardy who lost a family member to suicide and then looked around and realized that there are so many costs associated with clean up. And I believe it’s called six feet over. And what they do is they raise funds specifically for cleanup costs for families and funeral costs because we don’t even think about. In most places it’s not paid for by the city. I don’t know if it is here or not but there’s all these different aspects of the area that really like are completely unclear to those of us unless we’ve been in the moment.

Dr. Jones: [00:14:20] I do always ask my guests about self-care and this is a very heavy topic and I’m curious what you do for self-care.

Dr. Cerel: [00:14:32] I was joking with a friend about this yesterday and they had suggested that I see a movie or read a book and I said is it sad? And they said why does that matter. And I said I don’t do sad intentionally. Like if I know there’s going to be a suicide if I know it’s going to be really sad and dark I don’t do it. And they said Oh so you avoid emotions. And I said well yes the negative ones.

Dr. Jones: [00:14:58] Whatever works for you.

Dr. Cerel: [00:15:00] But I think it’s important too. This is my work it takes up most of my waking hours but to really concentrate on the things that do bring me joy in the last couple of years I’ve started riding horses as an adult. I hadn’t ridden since I was a child and I’ve had people talk to me about mindfulness throughout my entire career. Mindfulness is a huge buzzword in therapy and there’s a lot of evidence that mindfulness is great. It helps with a lot of things. Mindfulness never made sense to me. This whole idea of focusing on nothing and not on all the things that you need to do and multitasking and all of that made no sense and actually made me more anxious when I tried things like yoga. And so when I got on a horse for the first time and I had an appointment coming up and I had a call I had to make and I realized I couldn’t think about those things because the horse would know. And horses are not kind if you are not being kind to them. And so that’s for me become mindfulness.

Dr. Jones: [00:16:00] Yeah that’s great. Just riding riding a horse and feeling part of that.

Dr. Cerel: [00:16:06] Exactly.

Dr. Jones: [00:16:07] That’s good. This has been a really great conversation. I wonder if there’s anything else that’s really important for you for our listeners to know.

Dr. Cerel: [00:16:16] I think people kind of get scared or turned off when they hear the topic of suicide. When I tell people that’s what I do they say oh that’s a bummer. But actually when I don’t get that response the response I get is oh let me tell you about my grandfather let me tell you about my nephew. Let me tell you about my childhood friend that died by suicide. And I think that’s the message that we have to keep working on is that at least half of us know someone that’s died by suicide. And more of us know people that have attempted might even have saved people from ending their lives. And so it becomes a message of hope.

Dr. Jones: [00:16:56] That’s great.

Dr. Jones: [00:16:58] Before we close we want to provide some resources for you if you are suicidal or if you know someone who is contemplating suicide. You

Dr. Jones: [00:17:08] can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1 800 273 TALK. That’s 1-800-273-8255. You can also text the crisis text line at 7 4 1 7 4 1 at the other end of the crisis text line there are trained volunteers that will help you, chat with you by text and help you through your crisis. Finally you can always call 9 1 1. We want you to be safe and take good care.

Dr. Jones: [00:17:46] Well I just want to thank you for being on today. I always learn so much when I talk with you. I just have to tell you that. So if somebody wanted to find you and follow your work how would they do that.

Dr. Cerel: [00:17:56] I’ve really worked hard to establish a Twitter presence where I can communicate with people about the kinds of things that I’m doing. That’s Twitter @juliecerel . And then also I use the #not6 hash tag when I’m talking specifically about suicide bereavement or the scope of exposure to suicide.

Dr. Jones: [00:18:15] I really appreciate you and appreciate your work. This is this is really really important. And I love talking with people like you who really devote their life to saving other lives. I think there’s probably nothing more important. So thanks for coming on.

Dr. Cerel: [00:18:32] Thanks so much.

Dr. Jones: [00:18:35] You’ve been listening to the social work conversations podcast. Thanks for joining us. And now let’s move this conversation into action.

Announcer: [00:18:43] This production is made possible by the support of the University of Kentucky College of Social Work, Interim Dean Ann Vail and all the faculty and staff who support researching contemporary social problems and prepare students for the social work profession. Hosted by Dr. Blake Jones produced by Jason Johnston. Thanks to our webmaster Jordan Johnson. Music by Billy McLaughlin. To find out more about the UK college social work and this podcast visit socialwork.uky.edu/podcast