Circulating Tumor Cells, Cancer Stem Cells, Naturopathic Oncology: Dr. Dan Rubin & Ryan Sternagel

In this enlightening interview with Dr. Dan Rubin, a renowned naturopathic oncologist, key insights into the evolving world of naturopathic oncology are unveiled. 

Dr. Rubin delves into the critical role of circulating tumor cells (CTCs) in cancer spread, highlighting the importance of early detection and personalized treatment strategies. He emphasizes the resilience and adaptability of cancer cells and discusses the body's natural defenses against them. 

Dr. Rubin’s expertise shines as he explains the significance of cytokeratin in CTCs and the use of integrative therapies, like intravenous vitamin C, in managing cancer. His holistic approach to patient education and empowerment, combined with a blend of conventional and naturopathic oncology, offers a comprehensive view of cancer care. 

This interview is a must-listen for anyone interested in the latest advancements in naturopathic cancer treatment and the importance of individualized patient care.

• Dr. Dan Rubin’s website

• Oncology Association of Naturopathic Physicians

• Biocept Laboratory (for CTC Testing)

• Intravenous Vitamin C

• Mistletoe Therapy

• Quercetin Supplements

• Timestamp: [00:00:00 - 00:01:23]

• Dr. Dan Rubin, a naturopathic oncologist from Scottsdale, Arizona, is introduced.

• He has contributed significantly to the Phoenix medical community for over 20 years.

• Timestamp: [00:01:24 - 00:01:48]

• Rubin's education background and his role as the founding president of the Oncology Association of Naturopathic Physicians.

• He played a key role in defining and standardizing naturopathic oncology.

• Timestamp: [00:01:49 - 00:02:28]

• Dr. Rubin's international recognition in naturopathic oncology.

• Co-founder and medical director at Naturopathic Specialists, LLC, and Aspen Integrative Medical Center.

• His clinics have served patients from all 50 states and 19 countries.

• Timestamp: [00:02:28 - 00:03:10]

• Dr. Rubin shares his passion for trail running.

• Acknowledgement of his partner, Dr. Amber Belt, at Aspen Integrative Medical Center.

• Timestamp: [00:03:11 - 00:04:25]

• Dr. Rubin discusses the creation of On K& P for public protection in non-conventional oncology.

• Emphasizes the need for skilled and experienced practitioners in naturopathic oncology.

• Timestamp: [00:04:26 - 00:08:11]

• Rubin's philosophy on educating patients about their unique physiology and cancer.

• Highlights the importance of individualized care and the role of lab testing in treatment planning.

• Timestamp: [00:08:12 - 00:12:25]

• Rubin's background in existential philosophy and his journey towards specializing in oncology.

• Discusses the unique challenges and mysteries of cancer.

• Stresses the importance of educating patients as a core principle of naturopathic medicine.

• Timestamp: [00:12:26 - 00:17:42]

• Explanation of circulating tumor cells (CTCs) and their role in cancer spread.

• Discusses the survival of cancer cells in the bloodstream and the challenges they face.

• Emphasizes the resilience and adaptability of cancer cells.

• Timestamp: [00:17:58 - 00:19:20]

• Dr. Rubin discusses the immune system's role in recognizing and combating circulating tumor cells.

• Cancer cells can sometimes 'seduce' the immune system by hiding their harmful characteristics.

• Anti-cancer strategies include reducing the body's hospitality to cancer cells, optimizing overall health, and individualized approaches based on the patient's unique blood profile.

• Timestamp: [00:19:49 - 00:24:22]

• Testing for circulating tumor cells provides valuable insights into the presence and state of cancer.

• It's particularly useful in assessing therapy responses and is most effective when conducted early in the diagnosis.

• Dr. Rubin emphasizes the importance of interpreting test results with expertise, as they can have significant implications for patients.

• Timestamp: [00:24:22 - 00:26:04]

• Monitoring circulating tumor cells aids in keeping track of therapy effectiveness and motivating patients towards ongoing health maintenance.

• A zero CTC count can be reassuring and motivating, whereas detecting CTCs post-treatment may indicate the need for further action.

• Timestamp: [00:26:04 - 00:30:34]

• Dr. Rubin discusses the lack of widespread use of CTC testing in conventional medicine, attributing it to technological limitations and a lack of pivot points for treatment adjustment.

• He advocates for an integrative approach, combining the strengths of conventional and naturopathic oncology, to provide more comprehensive care for patients.

• Timestamp: [00:30:52 - 00:35:49]

• Dr. Rubin uses Biosep, a lab in San Diego, for CTC testing, which can identify two types of cells: cytokeratin positive and cytokeratin negative.

• Cytokeratin is an anchor molecule for cells, and its presence or absence indicates the cell's ability to move freely in the bloodstream.

• Cytokeratin-negative cells, often missed by other labs, are more common in Dr. Rubin's practice and are indicative of cancer stem cells, which are crucial for long-term cancer management.

• Timestamp: [00:35:49 - 00:39:46]

• Cytokeratin-positive CTCs indicate cells that were forcibly dislodged into the bloodstream, whereas cytokeratin-negative cells have intentionally detached to spread.

• The difference in cytokeratin status helps in understanding the behavior of cancer cells and planning appropriate treatment strategies.

• Timestamp: [00:40:05 - 00:42:54]

• Biosep's testing also identifies other markers like estrogen receptors, progesterone receptors, HER2, PD L1, and androgen receptors on CTCs.

• These markers help in personalizing treatment, especially in cases like triple-negative breast cancer, where androgen receptors might play a role.

• Timestamp: [00:43:28 - 00:47:12]

• After detecting CTCs, Dr. Rubin's approach varies based on the individual patient's history, cancer type, and treatment response.

• Additional lab tests and lifestyle adjustments are recommended to strengthen the body against potential metastasis.

• The goal is to stabilize or reduce tumor size, complemented by regular monitoring of CTCs to track treatment effectiveness.

• Timestamp: [00:47:32 - 00:52:24]

• Dr. Rubin discusses the use of integrative and natural therapies for managing circulating tumor cells (CTCs).

• He emphasizes caution in recommending specific treatments without understanding individual patient needs and contraindications.

• Focuses on physician-guided treatments like intravenous vitamin C, which is highlighted for its multi-faceted role in cancer care.

• Vitamin C is recognized for its anti-angiogenic properties, ability to strengthen tissue integrity, anti-inflammatory effects, and immune stimulation.

• The effectiveness of IV vitamin C is dependent on dosage, frequency, and individual patient context.

• Timestamp: [00:52:24 - 00:53:03]

• Dr. Rubin expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share information and acknowledges the importance of providing quality care for children with cancer.

• Provides his clinic's website, listenandcare.com, for further information and mentions remote consultation availability.