Brandi: 00:01 Have I ever told you that I almost like I almost never use Google?

Michelle: 00:05 Yeah, you’ve told me that. But I don’t get it. Like part of me is just like why though? It’s right there. Like when people in a conversation have a question like, oh, I wonder how old George Clooney is right now? They’re like, well we have this whatever resource called Google let me tell you.

Intro dude: 00:19 Welcome to Design Speaks. This lovely podcast is brought to you by a graphic design geek and a regular human being. AKA a non-designer. We’re here to chat about music, pop culture, cool places, and basically whatever we feel is relevant.

Brandi: 00:35 Hey guys, I’m Brandi Sea.

Michelle: 00:37 And I’m Michelle.

Brandi: 00:38 And you’re listening to episode 86 of Design Speaks.

Michelle: 00:42 And today we’re continuing our series on the process on

Brandi: 00:45 The process.

Michelle: 00:46 The process, capital t, capital p, the process.

Brandi: 00:50 Toilet paper?

Michelle: 00:51 Toilet paper or a teepee, um, Brandi’s process. And today we’re going to be talking about the research phase.

Brandi: 00:58 Yeah. So deeper research on concept direction on collecting style references. So we’re going to cover research and collecting style references today.

Michelle: 01:08 And before we get to that, I’m going to share a song with you.

Brandi: 01:12 Finally!

Michelle: 01:12 I know.

Brandi: 01:13 I’m like, do you not listen to music?

Michelle: 01:14 I do listen to music, unfortunately. And fortunately for me, I’ve only been listening to one album this entire time, like for over a month at this point. It’s, it’s ridiculous. Um, I have been in love with Maggie Rogers new album. Um, Heard it in a Past Life. She has a song that I heard pretty much. Ah, she, she released it before the album was released, but it didn’t get as big as light on.

Brandi: 01:42 It as well received.

Michelle: 01:44 Um, I don’t know if that is, it just wasn’t as pushed as much.

Brandi: 01:48 Promoted.

Michelle: 01:48 Yeah, as a single. Um, she sang it on SNL, so that’s the first time I heard it and like I just super resonate with it. It’s called Falling Water, so take a listen.

Michelle: 03:23 There it is.

Brandi: 03:24 Those beets.

Michelle: 03:25 I know. I love it. There is a time, like the first two weeks, this album release that I, I just woke up with this song stuck in my head. I’d be in my cubicle at work in the quiet and just start singing the song and realize everybody can hear me.

Brandi: 03:42 Oh!

Michelle: 03:42 Everybody can hear me.

Brandi: 03:43 So not humming, just so I’d start singing.

Michelle: 03:46 No, I’d start singing out loud with words not humming. Um, it’s just so catchy. And what I really, really love about this song is her honesty. Um, I think as a creative, we all really want to be honest and raw. Uh, but sometimes it’s hard. So.

Brandi: 04:01 It is.

Michelle: 04:03 The, the lyric

Brandi: 04:04 Authenticity takes work.

Michelle: 04:06 Yes. The lyric. I never loved you and the way that I like, that’s hard to admit. Yeah. That’s like saying I’m sorry I was a jerk and I didn’t give this my all.

Brandi: 04:15 I’m sorry I’m not trying my best, but I realize it.

Michelle: 04:18 Yeah. And so I, I just love this song. Um, it, it reminds me of, um, the sleeping at last song that he wrote for one Enneagram, the enneagram for

Brandi: 04:32 I just listened to all those yesterday.

Michelle: 04:35 One starts off with this, like, hold on, like, and it feels like you’re saying it was, oh my gosh, hold on. And she does that in this song and I don’t think they’re related in it.

Brandi: 04:43 Hold on for a minute.

Michelle: 04:44 Yeah. Um, I don’t think that’s like related at all, but I love that. It just feels like I need to hold on.

Brandi: 04:50 Yeah.

Michelle: 04:50 It’s good.

Brandi: 04:51 That’s great. I like it a lot.

Michelle: 04:52 Some good thoughts into it? Yeah.

Brandi: 04:54 I think this is one of the ones I liked the best. I’ve, I listened to the album briefly as a once through and I think this is one of the ones that I liked the best.

Michelle: 05:00 It’s so good.

Brandi: 05:00 Yeah. For sure.

Michelle: 05:01 It’s got the, it’s got the Florence feel.

Brandi: 05:03 It does. That’s probably why

Michelle: 05:05 It’s got the Stevie Nicks feel.

Brandi: 05:05 I know all the things, all the good things. All the rock and women.

Michelle: 05:09 Yes. Today we are going to be talking about

Brandi: 05:16 Our Patreon!

Michelle: 05:16 Our Patreon, not research, but we will get to that.

Brandi: 05:18 This is just a little blurb to remind you that we have a Patreon.

Michelle: 05:22 Patrion.com/designspeaks and you can go check out all of the fun little things that you can get for donating monthly. Um, we recently just got another one. So we’re really, really excited for all the people who are coming on board.

Brandi: 05:36 Everything from a dollar or two I think are most is $50.

Michelle: 05:39 Yeah.

Brandi: 05:39 Yeah.

Michelle: 05:40 And that’s just monthly. So a dollar you guys, that’s not a lot. And we’re, so we’re not, it’s not a lot out of your bank account.

Brandi: 05:46 But it’s a lot to us.

Michelle: 05:47 It’s a lot to us. And so we’re just so thankful for everyone who’s jumped onboard thus far. Um, we’re really excited to keep this going.

Brandi: 05:53 Yeah. So that’s, that’s our little blurb.

Michelle: 05:56 Patrion.com/designspeaks.

Brandi: 05:59 There you go.

Michelle: 06:00 And now on to the, the research bit of the process that we’re going through.

Brandi: 06:04 Okay. So, um, I don’t know. I guess I always say like, oh, this is the most important part, but, um, so this is one of the most important parts. They’re all really important in their own ways, but um, you know, it’s like, word map is super important, but you can’t do the word map without the brief. You obviously can’t have a brief without some sort of client meeting. Um, but in order to get to your most unique concepts and ideas and executions, the word map and the research are the two biggest portions of this. Um, so the research can, can have like a lot of things involved in it. Once you’ve got your concepts. So we’re going to, I’m, I’m basically gonna focus all of this on Kelly’s album, so he’s going to kind of be my example moving forward.

Michelle: 06:55 Okay.

Brandi: 06:56 Last episode I talked about how I got to his concept and I talked about a lot of others that I did in my class, but because this one’s um, one that I saw through from beginning to end and I have notes on all the process of research and all that, I want to be able to bring that to show you guys, um, auditorily show you guys. We talked about that last time. Um, so research, what is, what does this sound like to you? Like when I say you need to research, Michelle, what do you think that like that entails?

Michelle: 07:27 Well.

Brandi: 07:28 Not, take me out of this and how, you know, like what I do.

Michelle: 07:31 Well to me, research means I need to go onto Google and figure out what the heck this is all about. That’s, that’s research to me.

Brandi: 07:39 Okay.

Michelle: 07:39 Um, I guess I could try out books, but I feel like Google is just the most easily accessible, so.

Brandi: 07:46 Okay.

Michelle: 07:46 I don’t have been a whole insight encyclopedia set anymore.

Brandi: 07:50 Who does?

Michelle: 07:51 I don’t know. But I had one growing up.

Brandi: 07:53 Encyclopedia Britannica discontinued. Like last year I was a little sad.

Michelle: 07:57 Yeah. That is really sad.

Brandi: 07:57 I’m like, I’ve been saving my whole life to buy one of those.

Michelle: 07:59 I need that whole set. Are they on clearance?

Brandi: 08:01 I don’t know. I don’t know. I probably just kind of like purchase the subscription for my kids online.

Michelle: 08:07 There you go.

Brandi: 08:07 They’re still online. Just not physical books.

Michelle: 08:08 See that’s the sad part. So research to me is getting on Google and finding out more without it being just Wikipedia.

Brandi: 08:16 Have I ever told you that I almost like, I almost never use Google?

Michelle: 08:20 Yeah, you’ve told me that, but I don’t get it. Like part of me is just like, why though? It’s right there. Like when people in a conversation have a question like, Huh, I wonder how old George Clooney is right now. You’re like, well we have this resource called Google. Let me tell you.

Brandi: 08:34 Yeah.

Michelle: 08:35 So.

Brandi: 08:35 So I make, I make a point to almost use the internet as a last, as a last step. So I’m just going to list off the things that I use and then I’ll kind of go into, into some of them a little bit deeper. So I look at books first, like books that I have. I have a good variety. You can see them all behind me. I have, I have books on color, I have books on art, I have books on photography, I have books on graffiti.

Michelle: 09:11 So you’ve had to become a collector of books. You’ve, you’ve basically had to start collecting books in order to further your research search process, process, process, books on color, books on photography, books on, murals, books on book covers.

Brandi: 09:28 Yeah. So, um, I even have this one that I picked up at the Getty Villa Museum in, um, in California, it’s called symbols and allegories and art, which basically looks into, um, like if there’s a cat in an old renaissance painting.

Michelle: 09:47 What does it mean?

Brandi: 09:48 What does a cat represent? Because you know, um, in, in classical art and classical fine art, every single thing that they did for the most part had some sort of meaning, which obviously resonates with me very deeply because I believe that a good designer has reasons, which is part of why we, why I’m going through this whole process thing because this allows you to have reasons for all your choices. So I’ve, I, art history was one of my favorite classes. I took a philosophy of, of art in college also. So not just our history but the philosophy of art and that’s where this kind of symbology and stuff comes in. So when I’m doing research depending on the product, the project I get, like I usually don’t get more than six books. Um, I kind of like go through my bookshelf and not including color books. Color books are separate. But like other sorts of books, poster designs, book designs, no matter what I’m doing, I just kind of pick a book, a set of books and look at them. So there’s books, there’s actual art and photography. So looking at not just books about art but looking at art itself. So going, if I’ve, um, on how I do this basically is if I’m looking for a like a photographic direction, I will look on through photography books or I will look through my photos of other photos. Like, so if I found a photograph in a museum that I really thought was interesting, I probably have it in one of my folders on my phone. Um, so then I also speak into my phone. I look through my own inspiration folder.

Michelle: 11:27 Ooh.

Brandi: 11:28 So I, as you know, and this is where, where the collecting, you know, I always talk about all these crazy inspirational things that I find. I take pictures of everything.

Michelle: 11:36 Yeah.

Brandi: 11:36 They’re in a folder.

Michelle: 11:37 And you refer back to them.

Brandi: 11:38 And I do refer back to them, especially if it was something that really stuck in. I’m like, oh my gosh when I was in New York, I remember I was in this restaurant and there was this one thing in the corner, but I can’t remember what it was. So then I can go back and go, okay, that was the field I was the color, or whatever. So I’m going back to those things. Um, so fine art, also including um sculptures too, not just, not just paintings and photography, but sculptures. Um, and obviously these aren’t for every project.

Michelle: 12:08 Right.

Brandi: 12:08 This is just like, I’m just giving you like the vast array of things that you can use for research.

Michelle: 12:13 So your research ultimately does take a bit of upkeep because you need and you build it, you build it as time goes on. So the reason you can say you have all of these resources to look at for research is because you’ve spent the past 15 years building this up.

Brandi: 12:27 Collecting them. Yeah. And I realize that book collecting is something that takes money and time and which is why it’s, it’s, you know, developed over time into this library, this mini library that I have now. However, anyone can get a free library card.

Michelle: 12:44 Oh yeah.

Brandi: 12:44 And they have tons of books on art specifically. Um, they have, they are now starting to have a lot more books on like design and things like that. But I am a strong believer in if you are doing an album cover, not just looking at other albums for inspiration.

Michelle: 13:00 Yeah. You can’t then you’re copying.

Brandi: 13:01 Cause I have, yeah, I have, I have a big book. I have a couple of books on CD art and album cover design and um, I didn’t grab either one of those two research for Kelly’s.

Michelle: 13:15 Probably for safety.

Brandi: 13:16 Yeah. Well and yeah, for safety. But also it’s like if you want to look at them for maybe how they laid out the type, like

Michelle: 13:24 That makes sense.

Brandi: 13:24 How did they put the title, the artist and the title of the album maybe.

Michelle: 13:28 Yeah, that makes sense.

Brandi: 13:29 As far as like the design and the colors and stuff you need to be looking elsewhere because you’re just going to end up looking like some sort of weird knock off just by default.

Michelle: 13:38 And I mean plagiarism is a big thing and you don’t want it to accidentally happen because I remember this and I’m just going to say it, when you’re in the research time and you look at stuff, you can accidentally remember that and put that into the actual like final outcome. And when you do a Google image search, all of a sudden that picture pops up and you’re like, well, I’ve stolen this. Sorry. Or your style reference looks far too similar to, to what you’ve just done.

Brandi: 14:05 Right. Um, so yeah. So, so the research phase is, is, is twofold. It is one to get ideas but to, to eliminate things you can’t do that already exists. So maybe you have this idea that you don’t realize that you maybe have seen before and in your research, you can go, Oh Dang, that already exists. I need to do something different. Um, but ultimately if you’re doing enough varied research of different avenues, the likelihood that you’re going to even come up with something that looks anything like anything else is so slim because you’re looking at something varied. You’re not looking at all book covers and doing a book design. You’re not looking at posters to do a poster design. You’re looking at fine art to do a poster design. You’re looking at photography to do an album cover. And so all of that research really plays into it. Um, another, another couple of really unconventional things that I do is, um, TV shows and movies.

Michelle: 15:00 Yeah.

Brandi: 15:01 Um, I didn’t, I did not do that for Kelly’s, but if you remember when I did the branding for, um, the, the photographer that I watched, um, Dr. Thorn, I think on Amazon, it was like this Victorian era.

Michelle: 15:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brandi: 15:16 TV show. Because I was, that was part of the research of that era, that time period that I was looking for  her branding.

Michelle: 15:25 Yeah, that makes sense. And I do remember you doing that and kind of being a little jealous.

Brandi: 15:29 Which is just a little bit of a cheater way because let’s be real. The people making that show did all the research to make sure that the show looked authentic and right.

Michelle: 15:39 You read the spark notes.

Brandi: 15:40 Yeah. So it’s like, okay, I’m going to watch this. And because I’m, I’m a, I’m a visual, I’m a visual learner. I can learn, I can learn in all sorts of different ways, just like most people, but one of my primary ways to learn is visually. And so to be able to see that and go that’s, that’s how it feels. Okay. Now I have, I already had color palette ideas and stuff, but.

Michelle: 16:03 Well, when you’re watching it, you’re seeing, you’re seeingthe, the sets, you’re seeing the room, you’re seeing how everything looked, the colors that they’re wearing, but you’re also getting their acting, which is a specific type of, which adds to the feel. So the way they talk, how they talk, how they carry themselves, all of that should be in the feeling of whatever you were doing.

Brandi: 16:24 Exactly.

Michelle: 16:25 For the photographer.

Brandi: 16:25 Yeah. So it’s, it’s a lot more fun too because when you, when you put together, um, say it, depending on the client, sometimes I put together, um, a like I guess the only way to explain it is to say like a mood board.

Michelle: 16:42 Okay.

Brandi: 16:43 Sort of. It’s, I call it an inspiration board for our clients so that they can understand where like kind of on a more broad sense where I came up with these ideas on board.

Michelle: 16:53 It’s like a tone. Tone board?

Brandi: 16:54 Yeah. So it’s not this, it’s not like, okay, here’s this picture of this, um, this brand for another photographer that I liked and here’s just my version of it. That’s the wrong kind of inspiration. It’s like, okay, here I, I saw this color of dress on this girl, on this show. Here’s this picture of this group of succulents that I saw on Instagram that had this perfect green that actually meaning wise, worked really well and you know, showing all the steps and it’s like, it’s all, it almost looks like a, have you ever seen an interior design board when they’re presenting like that look of a room?

Michelle: 17:31 Yeah, it looks very cool.

Brandi: 17:33 It’s similar to that because you’re taking all these disparate things as inspiration and pulling them all together and making something brand new.

Michelle: 17:41 I see as just a human being with any integrity. Um, I have hated seeing people come up with a, with a brand of some sort of, of their brand and looking at their brand and saying, you literally just went to this place and saw that you and saw this and made it yours somehow. Um, I hate it being the obvious.

Brandi: 18:04 Right.

Michelle: 18:05 Um, and I have, I’m, I’m thinking of someone specific that I won’t even say, but it was just, I really

Brandi: 18:10 It’s sad, but I can think of a few people.

Michelle: 18:12 Yeah. It’s just, it’s really concerning to me just to, like, when, when I, when I saw that, I thought, man, if you’re not going to put that much effort into this, what is your product going to be?

Brandi: 18:23 Right.

Michelle: 18:23 Do I trust it?

Brandi: 18:24 Yeah.

Michelle: 18:25 So it was, it was just lowered.

Brandi: 18:26 How are you different?

Michelle: 18:27 Yeah, it’s

Brandi: 18:28 What’s your unique, what’s your USP? Your unique selling point is what I can copy you.

Michelle: 18:32 Yeah. And, and this happened before I ever even started this podcast. So I’m going back to that in my mind and thinking, yikes. And I’m still there.

Brandi: 18:42 People have an innate sense of picking out frauds.

Michelle: 18:45 Yeah. It’s like, oh, that looks like, and that’s why Kelly, whenever he’s writing a song, he’ll sing it and either all say, or he’ll ask, does that sound like anything? Or I’ll tell him like, hey, that sounds like this and I’ll sing it. He goes, ah, it does.

Brandi: 19:01 Right.

Michelle: 19:01 And it’s not because we don’t want to like outright copy, but we just, or we don’t want, it doesn’t, it’s not like we’re trying to be so different that we can’t be like anybody else.

Brandi: 19:09 You can be influenced by, but without ripping off.

Michelle: 19:14 I’m like his Google image search.

Brandi: 19:16 You’re his voice search.

Michelle: 19:17 I’m his voice search. If that sounds like this. And I’d be like

Brandi: 19:19 I feel like that should be a thing.

Michelle: 19:21 Yeah.

Brandi: 19:21 You need to like create some software for that, Michelle.

Michelle: 19:24 I don’t,

Brandi: 19:24 Make that a resource to.

Michelle: 19:26 I’ll get someone to create it for me. I know that is not my strong suit.

Brandi: 19:30 Find an entrepreneur that will take your idea and make you lots of money.

Michelle: 19:33 Hey, this is, I should tell them I work with a web developer. I’d be like, so you got this, this is a good idea. He said this his least favorite thing to hear. Oh, I have an APP that you should make. Like that’s like his least favorite thing to hear.

Brandi: 19:44 But we all need an APP developer.

Michelle: 19:46 We do.

Brandi: 19:47 I mean, I do.

Michelle: 19:49 Yeah, I get it. I get it. And just go up to him and say, and he’ll be like, he’ll just shake his head at me.

Brandi: 19:55 Like that’s like when people go, oh, I need a logo.

Michelle: 19:58 Okay.

Brandi: 19:59 Okay. Thanks?

Michelle: 20:00 Great.

Brandi: 20:00 Do you, what?

Michelle: 20:01 Do you want to email me about it?

Brandi: 20:05 Yeah. Okay. So now I’m gonna, I’m gonna like talk a little bit more in-depth on what I did for Kelly.

Michelle: 20:11 Okay.

Brandi: 20:11 Um, so for Kelly, I got, I got together some, um, some poster design books, some just general print design books, which, which could be, um, business cards. It could be brochures or posters or anything. Um, a book cover. And my, my ultimate all-time favorite for this project was that symbols and allegories in an art book.

Michelle: 20:40 Okay.

Brandi: 20:40 That, excuse me, that I got at the Getty Museum. So in my word map, it came out that, and if you recall last week’s episode, and if you haven’t listened, you need to listen to the first two so that this first three, so that this one makes sense.

Michelle: 20:57 Very rarely do we need to do this, but we’re in the middle of a series, so it’ll just make sense.

Brandi: 21:00 Yeah, it will make much more sense. So, um, I think I mentioned that geometric shapes came up as part of the process.

Michelle: 21:08 Triangles.

Brandi: 21:09 Yeah. So, um, so it was actually just geometric shapes.

Michelle: 21:14 In the beginning.

Brandi: 21:14 Yeah. So what I did was, um, the concept was almost winter. So in your mind, it’s like how does, how does winter even relate to geometric shapes?

Michelle: 21:26 Okay, yeah.

Brandi: 21:26 So this is part of my research okay.

Michelle: 21:28 Without it just looking like, oh, it looks cool.

Brandi: 21:30 Right? Because that’s

Michelle: 21:31 But why?

Brandi: 21:32 Because that’s what hipsters do, right. Just throw shapes on stuff because it looks cool and I don’t work like that.

Michelle: 21:37 Right.

Brandi: 21:37 Um, so I went to this book and I, well, first of all, I have, I keep a running, I keep a running list, not a list, it’s just not a running list. I keep a little reference of like the four basic shapes. So triangles, squares, actually just the three and circles and what those shapes represent. Because often in, in branding or design, you will have some version of these shapes, probably almost always, um, whether it’s like a half circle or a part of a triangle or you know, whatever. So, um, so what I did was I wrote down, I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna be real transparent and write, read everything that I have here. So for a triangle, dynamic tension, balance, the Trinity and self-discovery, and these aren’t all words that, that this shape means, but these were the ones that apply to Kelly’s project.

Michelle: 22:34 Okay.

Brandi: 22:34 Specifically, um, uh, a square is stability, honesty, earthbound. Um, if it’s tilted, if the square is tilted, it means something’s unexpected.

Michelle: 22:45 Huh.

Brandi: Your browser does not support the audio element.