Kelly Kovack – Beauty Matter

Want to know the latest trends in beauty and how brands can stay relevant in the current beauty landscape? Then do not miss this episode of RadioAMB where host Patty Schmucker interviews Kelly Kovack of Beauty Matter. Kelly has worked as an advisor and strategist with emerging and established brands including Dr. Dennis Gross Skin Care, Carol’s Daughter, among many others. She was Co-Founder of Rescue Beauty Lounge and is currently CEO and Editor in Chief of BeautyMatter and co-founder of, niche fragrance brand Odin New York.
Transcript:
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pretty is pretty important in all things
in beauty welcome to radio a and B
designed for those who want to live a
long and vibrant life I’m patty smoker
and I’m a licensed cosmetologist who’s
been in the beauty industry for over 40
years
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on american-made beauty comm my guest
today is a returning guest and I always
love returning guests because they’re
people that I’m comfortable with and I
know that they are really adding value
in the marketplace Beauty matters is a
has become an industry place of
reference where anyone who really wants
to tap in to the intelligence that’s
going on in the industry they know this
source of information and know my guests
very well
beauty industry veteran with a track
record of success Kellie Kovac isn’t an
RIT is an original member of the Bliss
executive team and was pivotal role in
laying the groundwork leading to LVMH
his acquisition of the brand Kelley has
worked as an advisor and a strategist
with emerging and established brands
including Mattel Old Navy Banana
Republic
dr. Dennis gross skincare and Carol’s
Daughter so cozy all works among many
others she was co-founder of rescue
Beauty lounge and is currently the CEO
and editor-in-chief of Beauty matter and
co-founder of the award-winning nish
fragrance brand out in New York she is a
thought leader in the Beauty category
featured in the press speaking globally
at conferences and contributing editor
welcome Kelly I’m delighted to have you
with us again thanks Patti
so for those of us for those who haven’t
had the opportunity to listen to you the
shows that the show that we’ve done in
the past let’s start out by just taking
a couple of minutes to talk about what
is Beauty matter and and and what what
do you do sure so Beauty matter has two
parts to it one is the editorial side so
we’re focused on b2b content for the
beauty industry it’s both a place for
aggregated content and original content
and we go we throw them a wider net to
what is relevant unto beauty brands so
we’re also looking at financial
resources design futurologists adjacent
categories like like food and beverage
so we really sort of look at food
anywhere and where people are doing
interesting things in business and try
and tie it back to beauty to just sort
of provide a bit of a different
perspective the other side of the
business obviously is maybe not
obviously that is I’m a consultancy
process so then I have been consulting
Senate plans and established brands for
probably the majority of my career and I
still do that so great for business and
so we you know part of the the
fascination that I think I have with
Kelly is is that you know we’re two
minds that are working and doing this
consulting work in bringing brands to
market and helping them fine-tune their
messages so we’re constantly reading and
digesting information I’m Kelly we tell
us a little bit about some of the trends
that are particularly capturing your
attention right now one of the
interesting trends that has started
bubbling up pretty fast is J beauty so
we’ve been hearing sort of men stop
about K beauty and we have seen Korean
beauty kind of infiltrate the Beauty
category and if that oil distribution
points so everything from CVS all the
way up to Neiman Marcus so everyone is
sort of playing in the K beauty and
landscape if you will and but the
interesting thing about K beauty is it
almost has sort of this like fat fashion
fast Beauty sensibility so there’s a
really fun packaging and
really sort of out there by ingredients
and that there aren’t very many brands
that are recognizable and that have
really sort of emerged out of it mm-hmm
and that’s interesting because it’s so
the catechol that the J beauty trend
even necessarily a trend I mean and the
Japanese have been so innovative when it
comes to skincare when I started in the
industry it was really an about Japanese
innovation and it’s almost the complete
opposite to sort of what we are seeing
in the industry some of this speed to
market fast direct to consumer brands
there is with Japanese Beauty a real
sort of on the slowness to it and it was
really grounded in culture and
technology and history and so it’s just
I find it interesting because it’s sort
of a new sensibility that is kind of
coming to the forefront and that’s
really about sort of the craft
so you’re seeing these beautiful
handmade makeup brushes I’m really
focusing on that sort of the speed and
the next thing to market and creating
something of beauty that works that’s
here for sort of the long haul right
right and so you mentioned the whole
idea that the K Beauty category while it
has really been a dominant in the
landscape it’s really there’s not been
any single brand that has emerged out of
it and it has it really focused on this
quick fast to market constantly new new
things coming out my takeaway I mean you
have that desert but been amazing at
Sephora you had
which I forgive much but much more known
for the individual facemask for the
packaging and I read recently that
that’s not even a brand in Korea it’s
taken seriously yet here in America is a
huge thing and then of course of amore
Pacific which is sort of a more more
traditional brand that you would I mean
I would have expected for a trend that
has sort of abandoned for so long and
has really gone from a trend to a
category right and the American side
sort of making sense of the category
like peaches and Lily and so program
American brands are leveraging their
korean-americans they’re sort of
leveraging their connection to Korea
back then that sort of k-beauty brand
coming out of Korea right right and so
what do you think are some of the
indications that that that speak to you
from this emerging of the of the J
Beauty some of the indications have been
I mean it came at that a number of sort
of obscure trend list from last year for
2018 and I’ve also seen just more
Japanese beauty brands getting noticed
in the past then I would say in the last
thirty to sixty days if you google J
Beauty you’ll just start lifting up the
listing of the listing of things that
have been written about it getting
traction quite quickly absolutely right
and do you think that it speaks to some
of the things that are happening in
America that there’s more of an interest
in the Japanese culture and perhaps more
specifically something that is more
heavily steeped in in in tradition
and you know growing carefully and
slowly you know I think that a period in
time where you know obviously were
inundated with information I think that
goes without saying that our most closer
means diametrically opposed directions
and you know on the one hand we live
these super connected lives especially
if you’re in a city and on the other
hand we crave there we we spend many to
be disconnected on you know meditation
studios and yoga so we sort of these
these lives and our ads with each other
and I don’t think the interesting thing
about the Japanese culture is that it is
very grounded in mindfulness and so I
think it’s very much in tune with what’s
going on in the evolution of natural
beauty or clean beauty or green beauty
so I think says a sort of a similarity
there and I do think it’s very much in
line with the sensibilities of sort of
what we’re seeing going on in the grants
of the rammus category and the merging
of wildness with beauty but it’s not to
say that these Japanese brands are not
sort of fanned and have out of those
sort of marketing leverage that k-beauty
do some of the color lines definitely
have that but they don’t have sort of
that that’s fast Beauty Sensibility I
know I keep saying that but it’s sort of
like this this constant turning over of
newness you know that the colour ground
instead of the cadence of launches seems
to be sort of more manageable or
realistic and what do you think
you know this whole breakneck speed of
new products being launched is that
about how do you think that that’s
sustainable and how do you think how do
you see the consumer responding to that
constant newness and in terms of brands
and I think and I think we are now going
through what the fashion industry went
through and you know now you’re seeing
the fashion industry really taking a lip
that let the cost and supply chain
perspective you know to get that $2
t-shirt into the store and they’re
significant so you know man and the red
hands you have a cause to sustainability
transparency and sort of cleaner
formulations on the other hand you have
this crazy breakneck and product launch
schedule which anyone who works in the
industry knows that you know to be on a
six to nine week launch is I mean it’s
insane right either it’s just sort of
private label so you’re really talking
about packaging and people are taking
shortcuts in launching and we sort of
we’ve seen we’ve seen some of that with
recalls on products so I don’t think
it’s sustainable I think customers seem
to want it but the answer seems what
that newness combined with really
inexpensive pricing which makes it even
more difficult so I think you see a lot
of this sort of fast beauty happening in
direct consumer brands that has sort of
vertical integrations
it does make it a little bit easier and
that you know the direct and indirect
consumer brands launching though and
many of them in the color cosmetic
category and you kind of have to wonder
you know how
these glands can actually sort of
continue in business because it’s that
kind of rapid development is costly
right right so is this really their
business plan but it’s really the
business plan I think it’s incredibly
difficult to sustain right right and so
as you as we go back to that you know
conversation about the influence of the
k-beauty and the Jade Beauty when you’re
looking at consulting with a client in
the whole category of
influences do you where do you think the
whole Asian market is and how American
consumers are receiving is it is it just
is it Asia in general would a would a
company that was launching the United
States from say China have would this be
a time where there would be great
receptivity to something like that today
uh-huh Chinese beauty brands uh-huh
Chinese beauty brands that should be on
everyone’s radar Wow okay American
consumers are still sort of hesitant and
around sort of Chinese them the
cosmetics are made in China right I
think what is interesting and we’re
seeing it more I think in skincare
and in traditional Chinese medicine
moving finding its way into the
mainstream of wellness and even skincare
so you know you can’t but you can’t keep
je trainers and stock which is a comes
from traditional Chinese medicine uh-huh
maybe we’re not ready for brands from
China but we’re definitely incorporating
modalities and do what what do you think
are the aspects of a Chinese brand that
give American consumers a reason for
pause of the manufacturing and the
transparency perceived lack of
transparency uh-huh
yes and so is there when you’re working
so if you were working with a brand like
that what would you advise them in terms
of the ways to overcome that perception
I think that’s kind of an big question I
think that I think I think you’d have to
find something some ground something to
ground the brand and familiarity and I
think you know there is respect for
traditional Chinese medicines of your
skincare brand and there’s a way to sort
of tap into those authorities sort of
from an ingredient perspective because
that also sort of ties into wellness
would be an easy way to sort of bridge
the gap if you would mhm
as different as a practitioner of
traditional Chinese medicine that was
the founder not could be another way to
make the connection but I think you I
think it would be Disick West without
having one of those one of those
connections that is sort of accepted
mm-hmm I think it’d be a difficult path
right now right right but and I asked
and I know that’s a tough question but I
think I asked it of you because I it
demonstrates that there there is a an
intentional thinking and tying it back
to what you’re saying earlier about what
is the sustainability of this fast to
market you know what are the what are
the implications around that and what I
just heard you talk about is really
being able to think through and have
intentional strategies to be able to be
effective in the market today and
oftentimes do you find that that’s a
heart that’s hard to get get brands to
think intentionally think intentionally
I think I think the big challenge has
really become that people don’t really
think that plans and mental perspective
anymore everything is sort of life is
very very short term short term planning
or short term plans and I don’t know
whether that is because of the current
retail environment whether it’s sort of
this just race and just sort of scale
fast enough I’m to size because you know
that the M&A; and M&A; environment has
kind of been in science for the past few
years
have met anyone we’ve met a handful of
people that I have good friends just the
cars they want to run a nice business
[Music]
strategies right right I meet so many
people who have an exit strategy before
we have a brand name so you know I think
it’s not not not being intentional that
being for that very short term in
thinking you know can be a real
challenge for Brown right absolutely
we’re going to take a break and when we
come back we’ll talk about some examples
of brands that really have been
long-term and some in some of their
strategies so stay with us as we have
this opportunity to pick the brain of
one of our industry’s
true thought leaders Kelly Kovac of
Beauty matter stay with us we’ll be
right back
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people and radio unites healthy life
dotnet welcome back you’re listening to
radio a and beyond healthy life net I’m
patty smoker and I have the opportunity
today to bring to you the CEO and
editor-in-chief of Beauty matter and
co-founder of the award-winning nish
fragrance brand owned New York Kelly
Kovac and Kelly we’ve been talking about
some of the trends that you’re seeing in
the marketplace today and we left off
specifically about the idea that 20
years ago brands started with the idea
of being able to create a future whereas
today there are a lot of people entering
the marketplace and thinking about their
exit strategy and it’s affecting some of
the intention that that companies have
around their brands tell us is there a
particular brand that’s that that stands
out in your mind as one that’s really
been built with more of a long-term
strategy I think is a really interesting
ban I think it was when you when you
talk about intentions you know it was it
was really done in kind of a faster way
and even though it sort of balloon up
very quickly
um there are sort of intentional steps
that got it to where it is I think and
before you go any further would tell our
audience what is glossier in case they
don’t know I think the best way for me
to describe glass there I kind of
that Gracia is today okay this
millennial beauty guru she was she
worked in publishing at though than
started a lamp art into the glass hmm
and then fell into the glass and then a
cup of products and custom glossier okay
everything is in sort of millennial pink
it’s really girly it has in a good way
in in an empowering way this sort of has
this feeling someone you’d want to be
friends with it’s very conversational
the products are forced the kind of
checked the boxes the direct consumer
brands that they’re launched a product
already having a very sizeable database
to sell to so a lot of brands and get
themselves in trouble because they built
these beautiful brands and they go tons
of inventory and they don’t know where
they’re going to sell it right she had
this dedicated little and group of
readers so you know she had day one
somewhere savvy products right which is
so smart
um you know even direct to consumer
brands you know the cost of acquisition
of consumers is it’s really expensive
right and so to have that serves in
consumer base and really set a really
strong foundation you know and she then
opened sort of a showroom and it’s a bit
about the customers you know the
consumer has been
Center and the brand valves are sort of
opportunities about which is sort of how
it seems to be how it seems children
birth to me so she has significant
amount of money to make that happen
quickly right and do you think that that
the connection that she had in terms of
a two-way dialogue with with her
consumer also has helped to sort of
indicate the direction of the company
and made it easier for her to respond to
the consumers needs right okay that’s
right right that is kind of speaking to
them uh-huh it’s just it feels right
market to Millennials and they just feel
slightly uh-huh this is like you know
they speak fluent Millennials right
[Music]
visual vocabulary to the brand a
calculated imperfection to it mm-hmm
it’s really approachable and so she is
her consumer so I would have to guess
that the marketing come pretty natural
right right and and so as a direct to
consumer brand obviously the technology
has played a major role here um it was
that well obviously it was one of the
reasons why the pathway was easier um
how have they used technology to achieve
some of their goals so obviously they’re
using technology you know to work too
much efficiently in crowdsourcing
I’ve heard that they have they have a
slack set up just for customers they’re
brand advocates so I think they use
technology in the running of their
business and that they’re not leveraging
technology on the seventh of the brand
that makes sense right customizing
anything and you know customized beauty
and they don’t they don’t have sort of
playing in artificial intelligence or
virtual reality then the technologies
they’re using is to run their business
when it comes to email communication and
social media and influencers and they
they’ve accessed started at a Direct
Selling so there’s glossier Avon guys if
you a requires technology but is it on
the back end right brand that you would
immediately say you know they’re they’re
leveraging technology but obviously they
must be right exactly
and do you as their some brands that
stand out to you right now that are
doing some interesting things with
regards to technology yes there’s a new
brand that’s just launched in the
professional space it’s not been at that
man that’s called pros and it’s
interesting some number of reasons you
know I think the professional channel
has been really challenged many say that
if the dad or broken I don’t think it is
and it definitely has some issues it’s
all the pressure Channel has been so
consolidated and it’s all about
diversion and promotion and it’s not
really about sort of hair styling
anymore all right so what pose is doing
is going they’re going direct to salons
and stylist so they’re sort of bypassing
the distribution piece of it has created
a lot of the issues and customization
you know sometimes don’t have to
inventory and individual stylists can
service their clients if they’re in sort
of a lab setting or renting a chair they
can also still sort of make that
incremental income through selling
products right right absolutely it’s a
decentralized distribution and what
kills me is that there are the
distribution of machine and the
professional Beauty just doesn’t want to
accept that their model of doing
business is dead so we’re going to take
another break and when we come back
we’ll talk a little bit about the human
connection and beauty and the lens that
social media is giving thought leaders
within the beauty space so stay with us
we’ll be right back
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your way healthy life net welcome back
this is patty Schmucker and you’re
listening to radio am beyond healthy
life net and I’m just having a ball here
with my friend Kelly Kovac that we very
seldom get a chance to see each other
person to person so when I get a chance
to have a conversation with her at with
her I’m just thrilled Kelly is the CEO
and editor-in-chief at Beauty matters
we’ve been talking about insights that
are that we’re having with regards to
the industry and watching brands come to
market and things that are working in
that it’s not working
Kelly let’s talk a little bit about the
human connection of beauty how does that
play in what’s going on in the market
today I think what has what has happened
is you know um consumers really control
them today so you know you can’t as a
brand sit back and sort of control your
message you don’t have a choice but to
can do if you’re going to be successful
to engage with consumers but I think the
I think is the engagement with consumers
and the consumers ownership of brands is
one thing but I also think that beauty
by its very nature is a high-touch
category and we’ve been really
with all the technology that’s being
applied to the Beauty category you know
the bulk of the sale the bulk of the
sales still come at retail and at retail
that that that person on the retail
floor is the face of the brand for that
day in that moment for that consumer and
I think we’ve forgotten we we’ve
forgotten the importance of that piece
and a lot of retailers that are not
succeeding have treated that human piece
as purely transactional you know we’re
before that was where women went to to
get information and even though
consumers today are probably more
educated on that particular item is
they’re looking for them perhaps someone
on the retail floor that that point of
connection is really important not only
to the consumer but to the brand that is
sort of a real and web connection where
you’re making an impression on a
consumer either good or bad so you know
and a lot of brands talk about and spend
a lot of time communicating with with
consumers on social media which is
absolutely fantastic and they should but
at home I was speaking to the chief
creative officer at Urban Decay doing an
interview for counterintelligence which
is a trade publication in new trade
publications for retail talent and we
were talking specifically about this and
Wendy said you know yes social media is
really important but I still want to
know what’s happening on the retail
floor mm-hmm
about the conversations that my beauty
advisors are having with consumers and I
found that a really refreshing because
you know I often think that they’ve sort
of been left out of the equation in many
instances but I think it is it is really
important because I think that’s where
you get the real the real information on
social media by email you know I think
we all live these kind of curated lives
on social media right personality that
we want to be uh-huh we feel like we
should be through email you know there’s
sort of a lack of a cetera and sometimes
you just sort of you know behave in ways
that you would not if you were actually
face to face with someone so I actually
think that those conversations that
happen in person you know some of the
most meaningful ones and I found it
really amazing that that is still part
of her day is to tattoo or get
information from the retail floor and
yet you know and it’s going back to what
we were talking about before in terms of
in the professional beauty market that
the distribution model where
manufacturers sell their product to a
distributor who sells the product to a
salon or whole retailer who sells the
product to the consumer that that model
is dead but you’re saying that the whole
idea of having a physical retail store
where consumers can come in and touch
feel and interact with a qualified human
being that can be the brand in that
moment is still critical to beauty so
how do you see the new model of product
getting from manufacturer to that retail
counter
it’s very I think so the professional
market is very different than the
traditional beauties I really think that
what we’re we’re going to see in retail
is that there’s going to be technology
that operates like invisible technology
that operates at retail which actually
frees up and we’ve had salads time to
actually do they’re intended to do which
is to create an experience for that
consumer not to chase staff around not
to sort of be transactional but to
really create great experiences right so
you know that did a read helical little
retail store of the future in London
last year and it was based on that it
was fashion but everything was connected
so it freed up the salespeople to focus
only on the customer and their needs so
you know when we talk about that is
working at retail the retailers that are
doing really well are the ones that are
creating experiences and experiences
experiences can be as simple as you know
a really dedicated meaningful staff that
has the time to actually answer your
questions it can be as simple as that to
you know kind of let Sephora’s doing
where they’re brilliant at integrating
technology and kind of kind of guiding
you through each step so you know
they’re involved in that pre-purchase
the imagine the
they’re following up with you and some
of that is online and some of that is by
apps and some of that is in store with
human interaction and so I think we’re
going to see the sort of this
integration of technology to really have
reached a deliver on experiences right
right right
all right great well we’re going to take
our final break and when we come back
we’ll talk a little bit about a consumer
segment that’s really being underserved
at this point and if we have time we’ll
touch one of Kelly’s best subjects and
that’s capital-raising so stay with us
we will be right back
[Music]
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[Music]
hey thanks for staying with us as we
come into our last segment of really one
of very entertaining event shows that I
think I have the opportunity to have
Kelly Kovac the CEO and editor-in-chief
of Beauty matters with us today tell me
we’ve been talking about the way the
market is changing and the Millennials
we always in beauty talk about
Millennials and and how brands are
trying to speak more to Millennials tell
us a little bit about consumer segments
that you feel are being underserved at
this point looking to a few trends and
thinking they need to figure out these
millennial creatures and Gen Z valuing
them and let you know there’s a huge
demographic that is not being served and
I guess I’m a little bit more tuned into
it because in fast approaching it and
that’s it’s women over 50 and I would
even say women over 40 specifically
women over 50 or I’m not it’s not just
women but people over 50 Clinton 70
percent of disposable income in America
which represents 3 trillion dollars
uh-huh
so like in this moment the over 55 is
still a very meaningful segment of the
population and you know we we sort of
started talking about it either and
we’re made sort of this sweeping
statement that they weren’t going to use
the term anti-aging anymore and some
brands that have you sort of older men
you know Linda Rodin when she was
running her brand Rodin was sort of the
poster child that I’m sort of embracing
aging could look like and was really
inspirational and I kind of feel like
the fashion has sort of is faster to
integrate and speak to this demographic
then then the beauty industry has were
still very much stuck in when you’re
talking about sort of the face of a
brand if you will if you’re high you
know you’re still hiring a face of the
brand you still have 20-somethings
selling antiaging skincare right and I
think that the 50 years of today is very
different and then they were 10
definitely 20 years ago you know I don’t
really see I don’t really when I’m
working with a client and we’re doing
we’re doing sort of an exercise and
figuring out who their consumers are I
don’t really like to narrow demographics
I think today people fall into
psychographics much more than they do
demographics uh-huh so you know I think
we have to get away from that sort of
very traditional demographic marketing
and really look at you know who our
consumers are right but yeah I mean it’s
interesting there’s a new media company
that just launched it’s called the
ageist and they’re calling themselves
the anti AARP media company new me
they’re called the ages
they just last a couple weeks ago a huge
opportunity for brands that sort of
actually take a look at so that this you
know middle-aged if you will time of
your license and really speaking to it
in a modern way that doesn’t feel
antiquated and asking don’t antiquated
though right and it’s funny that you
just mentioned
AARP but that there was I was having a
conversation just this weekend with a
media person he was saying you know by
virtue of their name AARP will never be
able to rebrand themselves no so it’s it
there’s an opportunity I’m I’m 60 and I
love the fact that I’m 60 I love that
the way I’m living my life I I look at
the idea that I still have at least
another 40 to 50 years ahead of me and
if that’s not the way my mother or her
mother at 60 felt and so being able to
speak to that particular market I think
there’s just tremendous opportunity and
hope to see more that happening yeah
yeah absolutely and so as we look at
opportunities like that I mean that’s
part of the reside I’m so excited about
our industry at this point is because I
think by virtue of these underserved
marketplaces by virtue of what we know
about the human body what we know about
chemistry and the efficacy of
ingredients it is absolutely one of the
most exciting times for innovations and
beauty and yet I think that I
continuously see one of the major
problems for new and emerging brand is
being able to raise capital and we’ve
only got a few minutes left in the show
if you could to touch on what are some
of the most important things brands need
to consider in terms of being viable for
finding capital for new innovative ideas
it is a challenge because you know
beauty is a really competitive category
I think that there’s sort of this this
moment that you can raise money you can
raise money on just an idea and if not
to say that you know with the right team
but you know if you’re going to sort of
launch a beauty brand you either need to
sort of set finances to sort of some
sort of proof of concept or do a first
round of friends and family before
you’re even ready to consider going out
and getting money in sort of the
traditional ways and when you say when
you say proof of concept what kind of
dollar revenue does a brand need to have
in order for the market to consider it
to be a proven concept I don’t think the
specific dollar amount is such an issue
anymore because there are brands that if
the right things happen scale really
fast so I think people in so that the
financial circles definitely have their
eye on smaller brands to see to see how
their credit coming together so I think
it’s a matter of having when you’re
going out to raise money is having a
really silent plan and you know not your
where your plan for the business is so
product innovation your product pipeline
you need to make sure that you have a
salad
operational infrastructure that if you
do scale that you have the where to
actually scale and management so you
need to have your house in order before
you go try raise money right right and
that takes that takes planning and why
people like you and I are so incredibly
important to these brands you’ve got to
be I continue to quote Harlan Kirchner
he was on our show and he said money is
good but smarts is better so you’ve got
it you’ve got to have your house in
order so yeah
Kelly thank you thanks for sharing your
your insights it’s always wonderful on a
personal level to share time with you
but from a business level you’re
brilliant and we really appreciate all
of the things that you’re doing in
beauty Thank You patty for having me
all right well we’re going to wrap up
today and next week join us and listen
in what as we interviews Shawn
Stevenson’s
from Alex and Tay and learn some of the
secrets behind one of the digital
technology brands in beauty join us next
week I’m patty Schmucker thank you for
listening to radio a and B where we
think pretty is pretty important in all
things and beauty
[Music]