Special guest: Phyllis Fagell

The tween years are turbulent times for many. Research tells us that those kids who thrive have strong connections, show resilience, ask for help when it’s needed and set realistic and challenging goals for themselves. How do we, as parents and educators help them to thrive? Do we need to coddle, bulldoze and pave the way? No. Tweens are more capable than you think. In fact, my next guest writes, in her new book, Middle School Superpowers, tells us that “middle schoolers and superheroes have a lot in common.” We learn that while both these groups get catapulted into an unknown and tumultuous world, they also can develop superpowers that allow them to navigate this jarring journey if we are both there for them and give them room to soar.

Phyllis Fagell, back on the show for a second time, is a licensed clinical professional counselor, a certified professional school counselor, a frequent contributor to The Washington Post and other national publications, and author of Middle School Matters. She is a school counselor at Sheridan School in Washington, D.C. and provides therapy to children, teens, and families at The Chrysalis Group Inc. in Bethesda, Maryland. Phyllis also speaks and consults on issues relating to parenting, counseling, and education. Her new book, Middle School Superpowers is the topic of today’s podcast!

• What’s getting in their way? Body changes, new challenges—we can help them cope. Answering questions, extinguish fears, planning, pros and cons, etc.
• Change: For a lot of kids, moving from those really warm supportive elementary years to that bigger environment is really, there’s a sense of melancholies about it. They feel like they’re leaving childhood behind. Normalize those feelings, help them figure out some strategies for managing that change, and reinforcing and understanding ourselves what it means to deal with change. We know people have a really hard time dealing with uncertainty. People would rather get a painful electrical shock than have a 50% chance of getting a painful electrical shock. And I think there’s some comfort for kids and knowing that change is hard for everyone.
• One of the things I’ve noticed in the last few years, especially as kids return to school is that all of them feel awkward. All of them feel like their social skills are weak. Any middle schooler has the potential to say something that’s supposed to be funny and lands mean, and at any given time, even the most socially adept, quote unquote popular kid can feel awkward out on the block top trying to enter conversation.
• We want to make sure that we are focusing on these skills for all kids in this age group and not making the mistake of thinking they’re too old for really concrete suggestions. The key thing is that we don’t correct them or embarrass them in front of siblings, in front of peers, that we do it in a way that’s like loving and non-critical and non-judgmental, which is very, very hard to pull off.
• USE EXAMPLES FROM YOUR LIFE: I share in the book an example of a time when somebody suggests saying that to a neighbor who has pointed out that there are a lot of leaves on their lawn, that the neighbor clearly is worried that the leaves are going to blow onto that person’s lawn, and they’re trying to find a tactful way to suggest they clean up their yard. And it is a way for that parent to explain to a child some of those subtle nuances and communication that otherwise they might miss.
• You might even say “I wish I could say…” “What’s in the back of mind is…” And then perspective take “But how would that land?” Transferability.
• TACTICS: I had a very good sense of how the kids were doing socially, but she felt like she was incredibly ill-equipped to enter a conversation. And so we talked through what does that look like? Maybe you stand there long enough to listen to what they’re talking about when you have a sense of the topic, then you wait for a break in the conversation so you’re not interrupting anyone. And you ask them a question related to something they were clearly showing interest in. And that kid tried this and came back to me and was just flabbergasted that it worked.
• TACTIC: If you have a kid who’s really struggling working with the school, I’ve assigned kids a wing girl or a wing boy, somebody who is really skilled socially and really extroverted, who will help them enter that conversation. And that’s of course done with enthusiasm from both sides and done subtly so that nobody’s embarrassed.
• SET UP FOR SUCCESS NOT FAILURE: But anything that we can do, especially for those kids who are still very weak in social skills, developmentally in relation to peers, to set them up for success is going to be so important. So also making sure we’re not inviting over a kid to have, you know, a three-hour marathon play date.
• Our expectations need to be reasonable based on the skills that our kids have.
• it might seem counterintuitive, but many years from now, you may look back and wish that you had been less careless with another classmates’ feelings.
• STRATEGY: 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months: They’re all egocentric. So it’s not that your kid is a bad person or bad character, if they’re not totally tuned in, they’re just still really learning how to take other people’s perspectives. And if we simply expect them to have that capacity, then we are not setting them up for success. Supersite or the ability to anticipate how your actions today will land– one of the things I do is have kids walk through thinking about how will I feel about this in five days, in five weeks, in five months, if I do sort of a gut check against my values? Is this something that is consistent with what I think is important to me? How I want to show up in the world?
• FOMO: Fear of Missing Out. FOPO: Fear of Other People’s Opinions
• Just teaching them to pause is important.
• STRATEGY: Should I post this? I suggest that kids sit on their hands long enough to sing me alphabet, just building in some of those frame that the bumper leans in the bowling alley a little bit.
• STRATEGY: Anticipatory planning- where we want them to imagine that that happens before it happens before they’re in that situation. And what are some plausible ways that they could get themselves out of that sticky situation? What are the decisions they would want to make when they’re not feeling all of that emotional interference, wanting to fit in, and everything else that comes along with being in that age group? And what are some set phrases that they can use in that moment so that they feel comfortable refusing something that they don’t want to be a part of? Brainstorm so it’s more organic- will come out more authentically if it comes from them.
• MISTAKES: First we need to make sure that we are giving them a runway back to being the kind of kid they want to be. And recognize and acknowledge that all kids want to be good people. They want to do the right thing, and all kids make mistakes. Really communicate before they’re making really serious mistakes that we expect them have those poor judgments along the way, and that we need them to be honest, and that we will help them in those situations when they occur. Sometimes what happens is kids have so much shame that they get stuck and they can’t learn, or they can’t acknowledge what they’ve done. They won’t own their part. Ask them is it all somebody else’s mistake? They made you do it or you felt like you had to?
• QUESTIONS: If you were to change one thing that you did in that situation, what would you change? Or looking back on it now with the benefit of hindsight and how it turned out, is there something that you wish you had done differently? So that we are ensuring that they are learning from that mistake that they made, and that we are giving them a way to also make amends with that person that they might have harmed in the case of maybe pressuring somebody to send a nude picture or something that they didn’t want to send. So not shaming them, giving them a way back, helping them own their part, and then helping them do a postmortem. Like when did things go off the rails? What were the signals that you missed from the other person where they started to feel pressured? What was the moment where you were not in a position where you were going to be likely to make a good choice? I always tell kids, get your electronics out of the bedroom because nobody makes good decisions late at night online. Set yourself up for success, doing that postmortem is really important. If we don’t want them to make the same mistake twice, we want them to be making different mistakes the next time.
• PARENTING THROUGH MISTAKES: Parent groups/friends: looking for opportunities to talk to other parents. Because when you do, what you realize is that all of your kids are making mistakes and they’re making different mistakes, but there’s no shame. They’re not a bad kid and you’re not a bad parent. It’s an opportunity for them to learn and do differently the next time. Do better the next time. So that’s one piece of it. And then processing whatever it is that happened with somebody else, if you know that something is a real trigger for you, go process it with your therapist or your partner or religious figure, somebody who can help you make sense of it so that when you do have that conversation with your child, they’re not going to just completely shut down and be shut off because they’re sensing that criticism and judgment.
• Draw boundaries without shutting out conversation
• The more that kids can see that their efforts are making a difference, the more motivated they’ll be to continue doing it- choosing something that has that kind of payoff. Example- planting something somewhere or they’re delivering food and there’s somebody who’s receiving it and really thanking them for dropping off those cans, or they’re picking out backpacks for same age kids in the foster care system, or if they’re into soccer, they are doing something that involves collecting soccer balls and equipment for kids who may not have access to that equipment and really trying to make it meaningful for them.
• Doing it with a friend can make a difference—comfort level- entry point.
• Give examples of people in the news that have made a difference—kids doing great things.
• See the difference they have made—that can really help. Agency and purpose
• Top tip: I think I want parents to understand just how much influence they have on these kids and how this is an opportunity to really get in there and teach concrete skills. I think often we err on the side of thinking a kid is depressed or anxious and sending them for mental health treatment, which not that I’m opposed to that it pretty much benefits everybody. But often it’s a lower hanging fruit that we want to be looking at. It’s executive functioning skills, it’s anticipatory decision making, it’s social skills, it’s understanding that how to set boundaries. It’s understanding the difference between funny and mean. All of these things that are really skill-based can lead to that. Insecurity can put them in a situation where they’re lonely. And if we can target that, and as parents, we have so much opportunity to do that we can turn out these resilient kids.

• “For a lot of kids, moving from those warm supportive elementary years to that bigger environment feels like they’re leaving childhood behind. Normalize those feelings, help them figure out some strategies for managing that change, and reinforce and understand what it means to deal with change. There’s some comfort for kids and knowing that change is hard for everyone.”
• “We want to make sure that we are focusing on these social skills for all kids in this age group and not making the mistake of thinking they’re too old for really concrete suggestions. The key thing is that we don’t correct them or embarrass them in front of siblings, in front of peers, that we do it in a way that’s like loving, non-critical and non-judgmental.”
• On mistakes: “We need to make sure that we are giving them a runway back to being the kind of kid they want to be and recognize and acknowledge that all kids want to be good people. They want to do the right thing, and all kids make mistakes.”
• HINDSIGHT QUESTIONS: If you were to change one thing that you did in that situation, what would you change? Or looking back on it now with the benefit of hindsight and how it turned out, is there something that you wish you had done differently? When did things go off the rails? What were the signals that you missed from the other person where they started to feel pressured? What was the moment where you were not in a position where you were going to be likely to make a good choice?
• “The more that kids can see that their efforts are making a difference, the more motivated they’ll be to continue doing it.”

For teens, depression feels like a big cloud that is walking around with them and they just don’t know how to put up the umbrella, says @KatiefHurley on #talktokids podcast. Sometimes, we have to put it up for them.
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• Book: Middle School Superpowers 
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• Previous Book: Middle School Matters 
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